VAT on nursery fees and university fees

[DontShow]

Talking through legality of labour introducing vat to private schools. Education is a non vat able service, so if they are changing that, then will they have to apply vat to nursery or university fees.

Removing the charitable status is one thing, but there are other places that offer private educational provision but aren't chariti3s.

Anyway, aibu to think in any eventuality there will be legal arguments in the courts for while before anything can be introduced......

Oh yay! I don't think we've discussed this topic yet!

I've not seen many legal arguments discussions tbh....?

Do people not know that the vast majority of UK universities are 'state schools' ? This is not a thing.

More scaremongering….

Do you have any evidence that VAT will be added to any education setting besides private schools?

That wasn't what the OP was saying or asking. Read to the end of the post before jumping to conclusions.

No, most universities have a charter and are legally different entities to state schools.

It's a huge area, and my title probably should have ended with a question mark

I think you are probably right and it "could" be challenged in courts. I am no legal expert but it appears that only "eligible body" is able to claim VAT exemption on education fees. So, I am guessing, it is just a matter of legislating for the private schools to be somehow ineligible.
ETA: out of interest, I found this article. So, technically, private schools should fall under private tuition provider and the only reason they are not paying VAT is due to their charitable status.
https://www.marcusward.co/vat-education-what-precisely-is-exempt/

Actually they are not.

Well is there any evidence of an appetite to change VAT for any other eduction setting? If no, then why would there be a lengthy legal argument about it?

There’s lots of times one specific thing is changed, added, or removed. That doesn’t mean there’s always a lengthy legal argument about similar things

I think Labour have made a lot of promises based on funding from VAT so they’ll be anxious to get it changed quickly. I’m sure they’ve already though through all the legal implications and the process.

Charitable status isn’t being removed….

There's no political appetite for this. It isn't going to happen.

Could you not have added this to one of the hundred threads on VAT and private schools?

Yes, but singling them out it could be argued is unfair/unlawfully....

Could you not have replied to them?

Something being considered unfair by some is not the basis of a legitimate legal challenge though.

Who are you expecting to start these legal arguments?

I think the whole thing of this VAT may quietly be put to bed after labour get into office. Too much legal wrangling, not enough money raised (if any), awful precedent and subsequent consequences for other things, such as wrap around care, swimming lessons etc. My opinion, and I may well be very wrong, is that the VAT on privates won’t happen.

This is nothing to do with charitable status.

EU law banned tax on education.

Post-Brexit, we are not bound by that. Removing the principle of "no taxation on education" does indeed open the way to taxing fees for other age groups. There are however no plans at present from any party to do that

Private schools are totally different to nurseries (which working parents need) and universities (where student finance helps academic students who need financial help although the interest keeps going up). Private education is not a right.

OP, are you a solicitor or have you had any legal training?

So funny. In real life this just isn't a conversation. I have friends who are doctors, artists, have PhDs, teachers, farmers, receptionists and more. A few did educate their children privately. Most (like us) didn't. Yet not once have any of them wrung their hands over this. Yet on MN it seems to be an obsession. Which I suppose nails the demographic on here.

VAT rules already manage to distinguish between different types of educational establishment - for example FE colleges are not VAT exempt, private tutoring is exempt under some circumstances and not others. Tax rules are already a complex, flexible, and adaptable thing. If HMRC can legally distinguish between a Jaffa cake and a digestive for VAT, they can make it work for private education.

All this scaremongering is coming from two directions:

• Those with a vested interest in private education.
• General ignorance of how things work. Every election people suddenly take a fleeting interest in things that they've previously never cared enough about to understand and wouldn't give a toss about if they passed it on the street. It's like a plane crash, when suddenly everyone on social media becomes a plane crash expert.

It's also not a non VATable service. It's currently a VAT Exempt service. Private education isn't an essential service. Higher education is. You're comparing apples & pears.

Of course they can make it work!

There has indeed been VAT on some courses (eg crammers, where you just buy the course/s, rather than a whole school/uni set-up). But the principle of "no taxation on education" still holds good across EU when you are looking as pre-schools, schools, universities and nearly all colleges.

That is what is set to change. They will need to define what establishments and/or what ages are affected.

(Making it CSA only - ie covering the period when the state is obliged to provide a free alternative - might be the neatest, but as that would exclude 6th forms I doubt very much they would choose to do it that way)

It doesn’t really. It just means they are smart enough not to discuss politics - a classic friendship killer.

I think VAT on private education is a terrible idea and have moaned on here about it. I have dc in private. But never once have I moaned about it to friends - either those with dc in private or state.

The fact that it’s against EU law says it all. I know we’re not in the EU, but if something is against the law in so many countries, the red flags ought to be waving at us for trying to implement this idiotic policy.

A few days ago, someone posted an image of their bum hole because there was something wrong with it. Do you honestly think that poster showed the image to a WhatsApp group of friends? Or do you think bum hole pics, like politics, is something to be kept online and anonymous?

@paasll but we discuss other politically related subjects. Much hand wringing about the state of public services and funding for example. And Gaza. And post match analysis of the election debates. I'd say in fact that this election has ignited interest in politics among my friends.
But VAT on private school fees just doesn't come up.