To not want my DNA on 23 and me / Ancestry etc?

[fingernails24]

I'm not sure if IABU but just have a bit of a gut feeling / dislike about the prevalence of people submitting their DNA to these "fun" sites to find out their genealogy
I understand if you're adopted or other reason to question your heritage but personally have some privacy concerns about having my DNA stored on some global database for which the privacy is not exactly clear on how it's used or shared.
I'm also a true crime fan and appreciate the strides towards cold case crime solving using these methods but still I just don't want to do this
Feels a bit "handmaids tale" in that it's sold as a fun Xmas gift and behind the scenes there is now a huge global database from which companies can track us (a bit like targeted advertising) and I don't like it
My mother in law told me I was a flat earther and I'd love to have some logical arguments/ reasons / evidence to share with her
Or happy to be told I'm being overly concerned

I won't be getting mine tested.
The repercussions of an anonymous company owning, selling, analysing our data at such a fundamental level should worry people more. It's not 100% secure and you have no or little control over what happens to it.

what are they going to do with it?

#Application for life insurance: Denied

If you don’t like it then don’t do it. There’s no need to preach or reason to others though. It’s not something I’d be doing, but my husband did and I didn’t feel the need to ‘educate’ him on it. Just let your family do what they want!

23andme didn't "get hacked". Individual users accounts were accessed because their passwords had been leaked in data breaches from other websites.

They had used the same password for 23andme and a different website, and the other website had a data breach.

However yes I would be wary about doing a generic test for fun as it's unclear what the long term repercussions are, including if your data is stolen.

Thank you!
I was trying to think of where it was I'd come across these issues.
I will never do it. I do have some tin-hat-tendencies (don't get me started on JFK). But for me, definite no.

@Catza what was this documentary please.

I think you're not unreasonable not to want to - it certainly shouldn't be mandatory. But it is something where an informed choice is possible.

The privacy rules are pretty clear if you read the TS and Cs on these sites. They do differ and occasionally change.

The vast majority of commercial DNA sites (definitely Ancestry and 23&me, by far the biggest two) don't allow law enforcement to use them for cold case solving.

Also, once your data is on there, you do have control over who sees it. You're literally told just who you share DNA with and what amount/percentage. Nothing about what that DNA says about you or anything. On some sites you can see on which part of which chromosome you share DNA with someone.

Your personal data attached to your account is entirely within your control as to what you share, just like any other social media.

The companies do tend to hold you sample and results for quite a while. And obviously there is an IT/security question here, as we've seen recently with hacks and data breaches etc.

Also, is your DNA really just yours? Considering how DNA is passed down the generations, you share considerable chunks of it with many other people, and the vast majority of the human genome is identical anyway.

Your point as to adoption etc - the only way DNA testing is useful to these people is for others who do know their family backgrounds to test. From their perspective, they need more people to test. But that doesn't mean you have to.

@RedToothBrush "Effectively I'm screwed as a result. That information is now out there."

why are you screwed by other people putting this info out there please?

I hope no one in my family is daft enough to do it but I didn't realise it would affect me if they did.

Just to add - I do agree that it's irresponsible to market it in a very light-hearted, just a bit of fun way, though. I think these companies should discuaa the downsides of what they're offering much more seriously and ensure that they have full informed consent from those who are testing.

I mean that in terms of being able to make a decision myself, I don't have that choice anymore as family members have put their DNA out there meaning that if it is used for data mining in some way, they already have enough information about me without me consenting to anything.

In the US law enforcement agencies are using dna submitted this way to identify both criminals and victims

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigative_genetic_genealogy

They can't - as it stands. It's not like a big database anyone can access and look up your DNA. You'd have to have agreed to that in the Ts and Cs.

Yes, the database must exist behind it, but what's publicly available is only to other testers and only the information shared by their matches.

Law enforcement DNA database are an entirely different thing.

Some of the commercial websites do share DNA with medical testing etc., but it's not linked back to you, all anonymous.

They can only use DNA certain sites that do allow it, and users should be aware of that when they sign up to those sites. I think some, if not all of them, allow you to opt in/out for use for this purpose. Definitely an ethical grey area though.

@RedToothBrush I'm really sorry if this is a thick question, but how does access to DNA information about others impact information about you? I mean apart from knowing who your relatives are, any diseases they might be prone to...do you mean they'll say "well, we know that several members of your family had this particular health condition"?

I was under the impression the tests were pretty unreliable anyway.

In general, they worry me, but I had hoped to escape any impacts from other people giving away information.

It's not about current use so much.

It's about future implications we don't yet know.

Since both my parents have done it, it could potentially create an issue for me. Or my son. Or my grandchildren.

We don't know and this is part of the problem.

This information is potentially very sensitive.

We may think it ridiculous now, but I'm not sure that anyone who has Jewish ancestry would feel similar. We only have to consider how recently genocide in Rwanda and Bosnia happened on the basis of ethnicity too.

The law is only as good as the government in charge. There are circumstances in which this could change.

We just don't know.

Personally I think some of this probably isn't something to worry about in the UK but it might be if you live somewhere else.

There there's also the prospect of genetically targeted weapons in the future which in the context of COVID is a possibility.

It's not so fun as we think it is when we examine how far this data could go and how powerful it is.

If you don't want these businesses to have your DNA I wouldn't trust that tick box.

Having had a 'slag' of a birth father and being that half sibling who came 'out of the woodwork' I find your comments very ignorant.

FYI - there is no 'American' on these sites, unless you mean Native American. You may get information that your families were part of immigrant communities (I have that) in the US and elsewhere. But the reason these things have taken off is Americans want to find out where they are 'really' from.

Why?

My dad did this in his late 70's as he was trying to get information on his real father. He was a g i baby and his mother never had much information on him. It was an interesting project for him as he now knows his real heritage

Saw thread title ... Just leaving this here

https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/11/uk_and_canada_23andme_probe/

I'm not keen, especially as 23andMe had a massive data breach and lists of people with Jewish DNA were up for sale on the dark web.

The tests are 100% reliable in terms of identifying DNA links. The predictors they give for possible relationships are not always (unless it's a parent.) That's where you need to do the paperwork/investigative work to confirm. The ethnicity stuff is here and there - it's become more accurate as more people have tested (generally speaking). But you also need to back that up with your own research to be sure. I will also add another caveat that DNA matches under like 20cm can be a bit of 'noise' but not always. The problem is more that the paper record which might link you to the ancestor is too far back to prove things sometimes. People's reaction to very high unexpected DNA matches is often that it is a 'mistake' - it isn't, honestly, but it does take time to process.

I'm adopted and I did my DNA and discovered my birth father straightaway and confirmed biological ties to my birth mother's family that I knew existed through other means. My birth father was also adopted and I figured out with the help of a genetic genealogist who his parents were.

If enough of your relatives have done DNA a researcher can 'find' you through paper records even if you are not on the sites yourselves. This is why things can be tricky if you want to remain private and you have lots of keen family researchers around you! It can be very invasive.

Some people are ridiculous about their trees being 'accurate' as if they were under notice and making some sort of submission to the courts as part of litigation as opposed to a fun hobby but ultimately a record of people's personal relationships as much as anything else. I have had to beg my new found biological family members with 10K plus people trees not to include some details about the other side of my biological family (who are nothing to do with them whatsoever) out of concern for their privacy. It's been a nightmare TBH.

This tests carry risks and the poster upthread who said she wouldn't be prepared for something to 'come out of the woodwork' is being completely reasonable. I am not offended by that comment. Once you open the door, you can't control what happens next.

I am glad I did it overall but it's not 'just a fun thing' for many people. The sites are getting a bit better about the warnings after all the NPE experiences but it doesn't really sink in until it happens to you.

I did the DNA testing for a bit of fun and to see a more accurate cultural split, I had some links for relatives I already knew about but hadn't met, so was nice to connect with a few messages. But I've not done much else with the info. I did gift my adult children kits at Christmas but they haven't got round to doing them yet.
My work colleague did it to trace her birth parents and other connected family, and she now has a good relationship with several of her half siblings. But another friend of mine, did it as one of her Fathers cousins had done it, so they wanted to compare findings, but it looks like her Father was likely not her father, and as both parents are no longer alive she is left with a lot of unanswered questions. So I can see why some people may be reluctant to dig around too much.

23andme's attitude to the stolen data is what would put me off ever giving them any info or money. There seems no remorse in their emails to customers, blamed the users whose accounts were the original entry point (because they might have re-used a password that was for sale with their data on the dark web from a different website hack) and glossed over that the vast majority who had their data stolen were victims of the hijacked accounts.

A relation got some really helpful for us to know health info from 23andme and I was thinking of using it but no way now with that attitude.