To think private education probably isn't worth it?

[Rumplestrumpet]

Not about the VAT issue... Nor the ethics of private schooling, but rather the return on investment.

Private education is so expensive I wonder is it actually "worth it"? Most private schools near us are £25-30k a year, meaning £150k-£200k for secondary education. Will it improve their earning potential that much?

Would it make more sense to pay for some tutoring/extra curriculars and put that money into a buy to let for them to have when their older? For that money they'd have a flat paying for itself for them to take over when they are older enough, rather than trying their chances on the property market.

Interested in anyone whose parents forked out and think now maybe it wasn't the best investment...

I'd rather spend the money on great holidays

It depends on which private school and what the alternative schools would be. Extra tutoring is not enough to make up for what kids would experience in some schools. I've taught in a wide range of schools, including private boarding, private day, grammar and comprehensive. The best of the private schools I worked in would definitely be worth the money. The worst - no. I wouldn't have sent my child there, even it were free.

They are paying for connections and a class advantage, to avoid their kids mixing with the hoi polloi. Which will likely lead to them having more money of course.

The ones who bleat on about pastoral care and positive influences - means less of that falls to the parents. Who can concentrate on the material stuff.

If private schools aren’t worth it compared to state schools, then I wonder what the hell they are doing with all the additional money they get.

I also wonder if people making comparisons have recent experience of the state sector. Right now it’s in a terrible mess and the lack of teachers and support staff is really biting. Will a tutor once a week make up for your kid not having a maths teacher?

The last private school I taught in specialised in security. It could not be approached on any side without being seen, and it had camera and secure locks all round. A lot of children came because they were at risk of kidnap by the "other" parent - so I guess for those families, it was how they chose to spend their money. The level of education was probably lower than the local state schools.

I think if you can afford it relatively comfortably, it’s worth it for the experience. You can’t expect specific results, but the environment is conducive to learning, so gives children their best shot. Above the obvious small class sizes, there is very little disruption, there are specific teachers for different subjects and a massive focus on sport. Medals for first, second and third at sports day, not potted sports and a medal for everyone.

And no genderwoo nonsense, which is worth the fees alone for me, although I appreciate this is not choice most people can make. Nor should they have to.

But the child has to engage and learn; contrary to what some think, you can’t just pay for results. And the vast majority of UK private schools do not result in connections, they’re just nice schools to be in, then you leave.

I do know some parents who are frustrated by the career/earnings their dc have taken after such a huge investment. However some parents want access to more sport, music etc & some are driven by their dc being very unhappy etc and SEN of course.

Probably not as cant guarantee future interests or jobs in a field that pays well.
I went private and did very mediocre. Brother also private was very clever and is on 100k. However children from our school generally drs, lawyers, teachers, author.

Imo benefits
Less disruption
Children are excluded for bad behaviour
Less focus on uniform
Better sport and opportunity as fewer kids
For girls only school - much better for girls knowing they can do science and maths

The difference between my brothers dc who go private and mine is huge even though 0-5 (and possibly 7) mine were ahead.

State school experience of my dc primary
60 kids in reception, way too much. Free flow made it worse.
Teachers read with my eldest just 6 times in the year. Maybe every 2-3weeks with TA. So couldnt move up bands
8 swimming lessons through whole primary
Pe mixed sex so by y6 the girls were somewhat overweight and unfit as not playing at all
Often youngest in year picked on by teacher for immature behaviour.
No push to move kids from met to exceeding. (Dc top 10% but never pushed)
Only effort put in was for SATs.
Kids who looked unlikely to pass sats removed from them and left at very low level
'Ability' confused concept as teachers assume children fninishing the work faster are bright.

Secondary
No homework marked
Lot of bullying/mean behaviour to kids they dont even know
Disruption
most homework has been revision

To be fair kids get picked on by teachers at private schools too.

Basically state school needs fixing. And if it is fine in some schools we need to improve the ones with issues.

Well it's not always about "financial return" is it? For me it's about ds happy and confident in school, and having access to lots of extra curricular in one place.

I think it depends what you want out of it.

If you're expecting return on investment that's a silly way to look at it.

If it's to ensure your children are extraordinary and will get into oxbridge etc etc etc, not worth it because none of that is a given.

Ditto if you think it's going to give them opportunities etc that will lift them up and give them an advantage.

If it's because it's the best school for that particular child, worth every penny imo (that's the choice I made).

If it's because the state schools aren't great where you are, worth every penny (although I totally agree no one should have to pay for education just because the state provision isn't up to scratch).

I think people assume all private schools are the same - very much not the case. The price ranges vary hugely, and like state schools there are good and bad ones.

Our boys went to public school, one boarded from 11.
It was worth every penny, they had a full education rather than being taught the exam.

Yes. I'm autistic (although I didn't know it at the time, and my parents studiously avoided such words) and went to a private school...and it helped me enormously. The education itself was fundamentally better than the alternatives - the local state schools had never had anybody get more than a couple of As at GCSE, and most kids left without getting even six passes - but the environment itself was also far more suited to my preferences and the teachers actually had enough time to be able to tailor the education to the individual (even a poor scholarship kid like myself).

And there's the true 'I'm all right, Jack' note of the private school parent buying privilege.

Exactly this. About children being happy and confident in themselves and the ratios and opportunities at private make this much more likely to happen. The reward is happy children!!

It's dependant on individual circumstances. Where you live (some areas have much better state schools than other areas), child's specific needs (SEN or something else), etc.

Separately I know you said your post isn't about ethics but I can't help commenting on it. It's much less ethical imo to purchase a buy to let (inflating house prices) than paying private school fees. I appreciate that wasn't your question but it's relevant to the current political debate around Labour's plans on private schools and addressing inequality.

I agree with a previous poster that housing is the main issue regarding inequality. That's relevant for schools as much as anything else.

Getting a good state school depends on being able to afford to live in a particular area (same goes for access to good public services and job opportunities). Also unaffordable and substandard housing affects health, and poor health and poverty are interlinked.

Girls can do science and maths at state school

Surely it totally depends what it is ‘instead of’. Our only local state school is really terrible in terms of behaviour, vaping and fights etc. I’m paying to shield my kids from that rather than to see them earn more at the end of it than they would have done in a ‘nice’ state school in a nice area which doesn’t have the problems my local school has.

My 2 are at state school. Their much older cousins went private, paid for by mutual grandparent. Grandparent decided not to offer for my 2, for exactly this reason that they didn’t feel they’d received a return on investment.

The 2 cousins are happy, in good jobs, well paid. But not “prestige” jobs - grandparent clearly wanted to boast about the doctor / lawyer type grandchild. Grandparent very disappointed.

I can’t compare careers as mine are teens still. But both are expected to get far better results in their state schools - one considerably so.

But the 2 adult cousins loved their school days. One was able to play sport ALL the time, plenty of match opportunities, development from visiting pro coaches. My 2 get to go to one mini netball/football tournament a year. The other cousin was in multiple shows in a school theatre that’s hired out for small professional shows. Neither of them have had people in their form suspended for punching a teacher or bring a knife to school.

So I think grandparent did get a return on investment - just not the return that was important to them.

That’s the thing - what’s important you, and at what cost?

This. The private schools near us didn’t perform better than the state comp we sent our DCs to. We paid for extra tuition when needed, extra French conversation, as an example.
It meant that we fully funded University for both DCs and they came out with no student debt.

I was privately educated but bullied and have low confidence. I never got a job through connections.

DH was state educated, him and his state educated friends earn more than me, and more than the two privately educated peers I still know.

We have an excellent state school near us, we have neighbours who are privately educating and I think they're being scammed.

You’re being pretty rude there. Also just ignorant. We are absolutely not avoiding the “hoi pilloi” - in fact we are the hoi polloi! We are also not materialistic or leaving parenting to the school ffs.

But we can afford to give our kids an education that we think will suit them better than the education they could get at the local state schools. It’s about their mental health, not about class privilege or financial returns.

I agree OP.

I wonder if investing the money and basically giving them a massive house deposit might be better for their long-term security.

I know very successful people that were state educated and completely hopeless ones that were privately educated and vice-versa.

Compared to what?

The state place my ds was offered was at a failing comp that even ofsted said wasn't safe. That the staff had no idea who was on site. That the younger children were at serious risk from the older ones. That bullying was rife.

Compared to that, I'd say my ds' scholarship place at a small independent is an absolute bargain because he is SAFE. Grades were the last of my worries.

The state trust has since been wound up. They weren't kidding.

@noblegiraffe you can't say that ALL state schools are a terrible mess

My DC attend a high achieving state school with excellent facilities, teachers and supportive parents community. Exam results (only one measure of success) are better than our local private school

@NeedToChangeName Then you are very fortunate. Privileged even !