VAT on private health

[Simonandrod]

Am I right in thinking there isn't VAT on private health care? Is it completely unfeasible that it could be put on and money raised go to NHS? Or is it too complicated as so many people who use it have health insurance? Just interested

Why should it be taxed?

I know a doctor who has had to take on days working in private to pay for the VAT on school fees. A bit ironic.

I have to pay VAT on other services, why is Private Healthcare different?

edit:
Why are some services exempt?
Is it because it for the richer among us?
Private School, Private healthcare?

Actually most of the time that’s not the case. Most Drs in private care are working in the NHS. In our area (I believe it’s the same in most areas), the Dr has to be working full time (10 PAs), before they can sign up to the private hospital.

Unless that service is getting your nails painted, you shouldn't be paying tax on it. This is how the government gets away with it. Instead of saying the government has to stop encroaching on every aspect of our lives with these ridiculous rip off taxes, which drive the price of everything up, people want them to tax MORE stuff.

There's VAT on food and fuel that everyone needs and uses and none on private healthcare and private medicine that are just for the rich, Makes no sense to me. VAT is the most regressive tax ever.

Why are some services exempt?

Because they provide a public good; education and healthcare are both good things for society. We want more of both of them.

It’s not as much as a vote winner as tax on private education. Starmer doesn’t care about the working people in this country, he just wants power. Just like Rishi going for true blue voters because he wants to retain power.

Part of the reason the NHS is overburdened is that we are so unhealthy as a nation. It’s cheap to buy UPF and quicker to eat rubbish rather than cook healthy meals. The main reason people need to use the NHS are for stress related illnesses which further compound not looking after yourself properly.
Im not saying this is on each individual as there are societal issues that lead to these chronic stress related health complaints.

My builder provides a service, does this mean I dont pay VAT on his whole bill?

Edit
And when I get my car serviced, I dont need to pay VAT on that?

If the Dr is working in the private sector then QED they could give that time to the NHS instead so obviously the private sector is a drain on NHS resources

Going private does not reduce the strain on the NHS as people keep trotting out because the resource drain to private is much greater than the people coming off the wait list. Only the easiest cases are treated privately and all the complex difficult and emergency work still falls to the NHS.

Yes 10 PA is a full time contract but lots of Drs work more than pull time. 12 PA contracts are not unusual because out of hours on call work is included.

There's VAT on food

Not all food. But the question should be ‘why do we have to pay tax on some food?’ rather than ‘why are some foods exempt from tax?’ that many PP seem to be arguing.

Do we pay VAT on prescriptions?

I'm not sure what you are saying? Do you mean that 10PAs is not enough work from Doctors? That they should do even more for the NHS? Yes some do 12, my dh did that for many years, he's reduced to 10 and still puts at least 60 hours a week! And the bottom line is that what Doctors choose to do in their free time is no one else's business!

Yes you do need to because the law requires it. But whether you should have to is a different question.

I have lots of doctor friend who work FT for the NHS and do some additional private work on the side. If the private work dried up then they wouldn't do extra hours for the NHS but would enjoy more time with their families. The private work pays more so makes the disruption to family life worthwhile, the same can't be said for working more hours for the NHS. This is especially true as many are consultants who are taxed at very high levels so the amount of money they actually take home from working additional hours for the NHS isn't anywhere near what you would expect.

I think we need to get real as a country. We want more rich people (and anyone that can afford it really) to be incentivised to pay their own way more, especially when it comes to expensive services such as health and education. It makes no sense to unnecessarily add to the burden on the taxpayer and add to public waiting lists. The fact that there are limited resources is partially due to the fact that there is limited funding so rich people claiming a free education and healthcare isn't going to help that.

We need to get our heads around the fact things will never be fair and equal. Rich people will always be able to afford more than the poor. They will use their wealth to manipulate whatever systems you put in place (buy houses in better catchment areas, tutor kids for the 11 plus, go abroad for medical treatment). Let's have a system that extracts wealth from the rich instead of encouraging them to preserve their money and use the State's limited funds instead.

That's a measured and thoughtful response @ThePure.

I wonder what you would have done if one of your children had SEN.

My DD was referred for an ADHD and ASD assessment by our GP in spring 2020. Nowhere would take the referral. The relevant NHS services simply shut down for months and months. GP tried again in the summer. Same response. We didn't get to see an NHS paediatrician until 2022.

We were in absolute crisis as a family in 2020. Our marriage was on the rocks, our DD was having a breakdown and she was violent to us.

I managed to get her seen privately (by NHS consultants who'd set up a SEN charity) in the October of 2020. This was the start of everything getting much better for us.

We'd have been absolutely buggered if those consultants hadn't done that!

I have had to let go of some principles since being in this situation. I no longer believe that the state education or healthcare systems really care about doing right by us. I deal with every situation case by case now and try not to be swayed by ideology.

No you don't pay VAT on NHS prescriptions. It's a flat charge not a price. See the attached poster which Boots has at their pharmacy checkouts.

The main difference I think is that many people today are choosing private in desperation - it is more costly to them personally to have to be off work for eighteen months than to spend life savings on having an urgent op. It isn’t a lifestyle choice - it’s a life choice.

Education is considered over the long term and is a choice made mostly when there isn’t a critical decision to be made (there will be some parents that will say their decision was critical though eg high SEN needs or bullying).

@Bumpitybumper
Let's have a system that extracts wealth from the rich instead of encouraging them to preserve their money and use the State's limited funds instead.

God knows we need something
Why are people like the Duke of whatever who inherit billions not pay tax on it, why are corporations getting away with not paying their fair share.
Tesco, and other large companies - if someone works full time hours then the state should not need to top up their wages

I don't get this at all. People who have already paid tax to fund the NHS are going to pay even more to have something done privately. This takes pressure off the NHS but the NHS still gets the tax.

Are you as outraged by all the people who pay no tax or very little tax yet use all these services that need to be funded by taxes - the NHS, the state system? There are far more of them than all these people choosing to pay for an extra services above and beyond what they are already funding!

Originally, there was no VAT on fuel. Then the government got greedy.

That poster is disingenuous. The prescription charge absolutely does help fund the pharmacy - where do they think the pharmacy’s prescribing fees come from? Or the money to pay for the medication? They may not consider that they get enough money for prescribing medication but the money they get has to come from somewhere.

Not true. Also senior medic. Alot of medics working privately were trained elsewhere (not UK trained - I am sure I can dig up the numbers). As it is, 30% of NHS medics where trained outside the UK

I think charging VAT on either of these is mad. I would argue the same if people wanted to pay for their own private refuse collections, SEN provision or security or fire services.

As long as they are paying the right amount of tax, if they want to pay for a service or provision that relieved the state of a burden then we should be incentivising this, not looking to pile on so much tax that it becomes unattractive. We need less people taking from the system, not more!

True. Depends on Specialty but the more the demand (especially with the NHS now paying for that capacity), the longer the wait lists there will be too. Relatively.

60% of cataract surgery in the UK are now done in the private sector, mostly paid for by the NHS. Pre-pandemic, it was circa 20%.