Promotion with effectively no pay rise

[DaisyChain987]

I was promoted in January from a staff to a managerial role. My manager at the time made a big thing out of it, saying it was a huge step up and a 'career defining role'. However, he said I needed a lot of development (which is fair) and so offered me a 5% pay rise which just about took me to the bottom of the pay band for the role.

I was a bit miffed that it wasn't a bit more, but was promised another increase this summer when they do their annual pay rises for managers if I land well in the role and delivered well for the first 6 months.

My pay rise has now been confirmed and I have been given another couple of % which I was ok with. However, our annual pay rise for staff has now been announced which is double than that for managers. Effectively, this means that if I had stayed in my previous role, I would be on near enough the same salary as I will be for my managerial role (give or take £100).

I have received a much bigger bonus (over double what I would have got as staff, although still not huge) however, I feel quite upset that I've been busting my gut in my new role over the last 6 months, received excellent feedback from my manager and other stakeholders I work with, now manage someone else, am working much longer hours and have significantly more responsibility and base salary wise I am no better off having been promoted.

My manager shrugs his shoulders and just says 'it is what it is', although he does have the power to further increase my salary. He argues that because my bonus is bigger, I have the 'status' of the role on my CV and the future progression opportunities it gives me, I should be fine with doing it for the same pay as my previous role.

I'm swinging between feeling this is really unfair and then that I am just being greedy and I should count my blessings I've still got a decent pay rise.

AIBU?

YABU - you got a pay rise, you're being greedy
YANBU - a promotion with added responsibility and workload should come with a increase to base salary.

YANBU but the gradgrinds will be along soon to tell us how lucky we are and we should all pay t'mill owner for permission to come to work.

YANBU ask for a payrise.

Go back to them very politely and say the disparity between the rise in non-managerial pay and managerial pay this year means that you don't feel the increase reflects the degree of new responsibility you have. If you had stayed at the lower level you'd now be on X whereas, with all this new responsibility you are only on Y, which is in real terms, only £35pw more (or whatever). Ask for them to adjust your increase to reflect fairly the new responsibilities and skills you have.

If they won't, start applying elsewhere, making use of all the training you've undertaken over the past six months, to make you a more valuable employee.

There is a lot of that on MN. It baffles me.

How much different was your bonus to what it would have been? That would be my decider, and then I'd go after a large base increase next year if the bonus was decent this year. You should really still get the annual increase too otherwise your payrise means nothing.

Big red flags signifying toxic management traits:
My manager at the time made a big thing out of it, saying it was a huge step up and a 'career defining role'.

I have the 'status' of the role on my CV and the future progression opportunities it gives me, I should be fine with doing it for the same pay as my previous role.

I'd be telling this toxic manager that as i have the status of this career defining role on my CV - ill be taking my ass off to future progression opportunities elsewhere unless he does something to make this role more lucrative and attractive, or simply step back into the old role with less stress and responsibility.

If you're not getting what you want in terms of remuneration - than act your wage rather than working for free.

Something similar happened to me last year. And then I found out my previous technical role was actually worth more ££ than my new managerial role so I stepped back this year. Same money and less stress. And the bonuses were the same for managers and technical too.

Apply for new jobs until you get an offer and then either use it as leverage to force their hand or leave. Unfortunately management will try to get away with whatever they can rather than pay their staff fairly.

It's not right, but it hasn't been right for a long time now. I think since about 2010, wages fell out of pace with inflation. Nobody has had a real terms payrise since around then, so we're in a phase of stagflation. Record inflation with stagnating wages because nobody can afford to pay people in line with inflation. There is no money left. I work in the private sector and the wages are at market rate, but they've not kept parity with inflation, rising costs and high taxes. Your manager is right, it is what it is. It sucks.

This isn't unusual for a first step into management. If we consider what happens from the employer's perspective when that happens, someone goes from being an experienced, high-performing, senior non-manager (because if they weren't these things they'd hopefully never have been promoted) to a new, junior manager. Therefore the amount of contribution they make to the company has probably not increased much, and has perhaps even decreased.

How does this look in the long-term? If it looks like it'll be worth it over 3-5 years then it could still have been a good move, if not then it probably isn't (so stick it out for 18 months so you have a bit experience on your CV, then go job-hunting elsewhere).

No harm in asking one more time, by setting it all out in actual figures.

however, if they say no again then I'd just sit down and decide whether the job is worth it to you in the round. e.g. I know I could be paid better for the same role elsewhere but I really like my colleagues and am given a lot of flexibility by my employer, which I really value, so i stay put.

If it's not worth it to you at your current pay, then start looking to move elsewhere. It's true that the title will improve your chances of a better role!

Ask and start looking elsewhere.

You can now apply for managerial roles. It's much faster to gain pay increase by moving around than staying in the same company, usually.

Did everyone across the board get the same amount? I.e. instead of a % increase, a payment of £3k (for example) was paid to all staff. So for managers it's a 2% pay rise, but for lower paid staff it might be a 5% pay rise?

This is what we do in our work. As there are more staff than managers, we always vote for the flat rate increase. It pisses the managers off no end 🤣. They moan about getting a 'pay cut'

But the disparity amongst pay is far more than £100 a month, so I get why you're annoyed.

YANBU and I would start looking elsewhere.

Take that 'status' on your CV and fuck them. Go right off to another workplace where they'll pay for your expertise.

I had a similar experience last year. Promoted to the next level with a pay rise but lower grades got priority at the annual review so there wasn't much in it. However, I was near the top of the pay scale for the old role so my salary 'ceiling' wasn't far off. My current salary 'ceiling' is a significant way off. I've just had another pay rise which has pushed me further up and I can take comfort that my salary is only going one way.

Here’s a reminder: always negotiate your starting salary in a new role! As women we don’t seem to do this routinely but I started to in the early 00s. There’s always room for them to manoeuvre. I’ve always got them to increase their first offer by £3-5k. My current role I persuaded them to offer at the top of the band, £8k above the bottom and this was in a sector I had no experience in but I demonstrably had the skills and experience for the role.

If you don’t ask, you don’t get. And we should never be afraid of asking.

You were only promised in January so are still very new to the role. I wouldn't have expect3d a decent payrise only a couple of months in as it'd hard to show your performance is great, when you're still learning. But I would be making it clear that next time you will be expecting your pay rise to reflect someone who is performing that role rather than learning that role

I'd push back if I were you. You don't take on more responsibility for the same money.

If an uplift can't happen could you go back to your old role and would you want to? I'd also start looking around

Gotta ask, what is a gradgrind?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradgrind

YANBU OP! I refused a promotion on this basis. T&Cs were better with my current ‘lesser’ role. Sometimes it’s only a promotion on paper!

Some people really believe that moving up in terms of seniority and job title is worth as much as a payrise. I'm the exact opposite, I want the least amount of work, stress and responsibility for the most money I can get.

That said, you have only been in the role 6 months. Can you ask for another review including pay review at your 1 year point? Or is your company strict on only reviewing pay once per year? If they are really strict, then I would be pushing again with your manager, and if need be go over their head. I have done that before when I found out a team member who contributed significantly less to the team than I did was on more money than me, and I was immediately brought up in line with his salary. Definitely worth pushing again, and then making a call for yourself.

I wouldn't deliberately go out looking for a new job only to give yourself leverage in this role. A) it messes the recruiter around for that job, and while you don't owe them anything, if you did at some point want to work there it wouldn't be a great start to your relationship and B) once you've made it clear you'll leave if you have to, your current employer may up your pay in the short term, but will not look favourably on you in the long term for future development and more pay. If you are prepared to leave, then just get yourself a better offer and take it, don't play bargaining games.

You say your bonus was double.
So did you earn 5k more than staff?