State Boarding Schools

[Lone4anger]

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the government should invest in state boarding schools?

Everyone bashes on about private schools as though they don’t bring any money into the economy and are only used by the wealthy - the schools close to me have quite a few overseas students as well as pupils with parents on benefits to the super wealthy - the overseas students have to employ a UK based family to host the children; accommodation is paid for by the parents when they visit; shops, restaurants receive money from the tourism.
If only 7% go to private school charging VAT will not raise the money that is expected.
If the plan is to charge overseas students more, they won’t come to school here. Smart schools will do outreach programmes & set up overseas hubs.
Also, for those parents who use boarding schools - whether they are in the armed forces, have a challenging home life or work just means they want somewhere consistent for their child(ren) - what will they do?
we should advocate for state boarding schools to take over private schools - therefore the education is free, you only have to pay for the boarding element. This means that those who require the boarding element will not be left high and dry.
is it unreasonable to advocate for more state boarding schools?

most people who already use boarding schools will just pay a bit more than they currently do.
do you know anything about the way that state schools are set up and managed?
you realise that they're the responsibility of local authorities?
who are already under huge pressure and have smaller budgets than ever before, and definitely don't have the capacity and resources to magically 'take over' a bunch of random old school buildings (in many cases, purpose-built for the kind of educational activities and very small class sizes found in private schools), and presumably their existing staff (many of these teachers could well be unqualified btw), and turn them into 'state boarding schools'....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_state_boarding_schools_in_England

Just in case you were not aware... there are several state boarding schools in England. Free education but charge for the boarding element..

I wondered how many people actually know about them. I found out by accident. However this could be a solution. And, even though some of the teachers at private schools do not have a teaching degree, I believe they all have a degree in the subject they teach.

Neither a teaching degree or a subject degree make you a good teacher though.. perhaps we should start valuing our teachers more.

DS1 and DS2 are at a state boarding school although they don't board. There are weekly boarders and full time boarders but also international boarders which I think is a great idea as it exposes the boys to a much wider cultural mix. DS2's best friends are from Hong Kong/ African countries! So to him the world is a much smaller place.

My kids attended a state boarding grammar - as day pupils, around 1/3 of pupils were boarders. Really nice atmosphere. Loved it.

There is a huge difference between state boarding schools and public/private schools.
The local education authorities could never run the establishments in the same way.

The budget for the hours teaching staff would have to work wouldn’t come near!

Our boys were at public school, the school day started at 8.20, in higher line they finished around 8.00pm and in lower line between 6 and 7pm.
All 3 meals were eaten at school by boarders and day pupils, a minimum of 90 minutes a day was dedicated to sport and all pupils attended school on Saturday mornings.

One of mine is at state boarding. They chose it over boarding at a very famous public school and it's been fantastic. It's a mix of day and boarding and has a great atmosphere, they have friends from all over the country and internationally of all races. As well as academic excellence across the school my DC happily lives alongside people of different religions and has picked up extra languages eg German and Chinese (yes, including swearing just like in any school, all boarders are modern teenagers not 18th century throwbacks).

Sago1's post that there's a difference between state and independent doesn't really stand up to scrutiny unless you're a snob, some independent schools are comparatively crap especially when you factor in their much higher fees. When you're boarding at a state school there are staff outside lesson times, they don't all vanish at 3.30 and leave the DC unsupervised 🙄. There is plenty going on in the evenings for boarders and even day pupils like music, sport, societies, CCF/DOE, structured prep time just the same as independent although they're less spoon fed IME. Just because local authorities are involved doesn't mean they're useless and don't work, especially given academy trusts.

Would it be unreasonable to suggest that the government should invest in state boarding schools?

I’d imagine there’s a case to make about the rationale. Some of it is obvious: they’re the only way for many children with SEND, children who live in remote / island area, children from diplomat and military families etc to access a consistent education. But are there substantial enough numbers of children in those categories who would like to board but currently don’t have access? What are the figures and stats?

Beyond that, surely they’re just another form of privilege, especially if they’re selective or cater specifically for children with e.g. academic, sporting, drama prowess which many children from lower income and deprived backgrounds haven’t had the opportunities or parental backing to have nurtured. I’m not especially supportive about public funds being prioritised for that.

Don't some exist already?

But are there substantial enough numbers of children in those categories who would like to board but currently don’t have access?

Other than reasons mentioned above - seems bizarre who would want them. Some sort of foster care placement?

One area where we could do with state boarding is for specialist schools. At the moment our talented musicians and dancers are farmed out to private schools with financial support from the MDF. An increasing number of places in these schools are going to international students and it concerns me that we aren't really developing homegrown talent (especially with the closure of a Saturday department at a leading conservatoire).

The state boarding schools I have researched are not selective in the way you mention. The boarding fees appear high - which I presume covers the additional staff / hours and some of the extra curricular activities for both day pupils and boarders as well as maintenance of grounds etc.
Further I know many parents who work shifts who would love the option of their child being able to board at school with their friends a couple of times a week.
There is obviously an appetite for boarding hence why so many private schools are boarding & day schools.

I have two friends who's dc went to Royal Albert and Allexamdra . I think it's in Reigate area ? Both parents are nurses and single parents with hopeless fathers .. their kids were/are best mates..

They are now in their mid 20s but if they are anything to go by.. what a fabulous school. They have friends from every race ,religion and culture that remain friends to this day .. and we still see those friends now..

I have always been vehemently anti-boarding . Always felt it was a cop out for parents that didn't want to raise their kids .. but my mindset has changed since meeting them nearly ten years ago.. i

It's SO different from standard 'public boarding' school where everyone is basically Uber posh and no one ever encounters a different way of life . it's a genuine mix of all classes . There were kids placed there by social services as the best fit for kids in tricky circumstances - as well as very upper middle class kids and well .. like my friends .. just normal but mum working hard ..

The experience makes the children aspire to do well as they are rightly proud of their school.

My friends dc have done well.. the reason one of them sent them was because of the well founded fear of falling into gang culture. Her decision has made him the amazing young man he is today .

No he didn't 'end up at Oxford' which I think is the aspiration of most parents who shell out a fortune on private /public school. - but he went to an excellent university and has a really good job, wife and child . A situation that would not of happened left to his own devices in the run down estate in south London where he was bought up.

The vote was very much against the extension of the state boarding model, it would be interesting to find out if those voting against have experience of state boarding schools or were giving a knee-jerk reaction based on the initial negative reaction - which appeared to come from someone who was/is not aware of the concept of state boarding schools.
I am old enough to remember the teachers strikes of the 70’s - we had all our free clubs and most of our extra curricular sport cancelled - everything from art, photography, maths, science, chess to teachers taking us in a minibus to matches etc out of school hours all stopped because the government wanted to not pay teachers for all the additional hours. Not long after that it seemed, schools (or perhaps I should say local authorities) were forced to sell off playing fields - generally for housing - thus reducing the amount of space for each individual child.
Since then, successive governments have tinkered with education.
I am not saying that the state boarding system is the be-all for solving these issues however they do provide a good state education - free to those who are in the catchment area or fulfil their criteria (just like all other state schools) as well as extra curricular activities which may not be standard in many state schools now.
How often on mumsnet do we discuss the difference between working hours and school hours?
Due to the addition of VAT to school fees, would it be a viable option for some of those private schools to become state boarding schools? It would come down to location / size and whether they already have a boarding element or could purchase / build the facilities to provide boarding. This would be the issue mainly, I imagine, for those schools within cities where property is expensive and land is at a premium.
Apologies for the long post but if the smaller private schools close as it isn’t just a case of families absorbing this cost and some schools may have to pass it on, I don’t imagine there will be a massive influx to state schools but, we may see - already be seeing - the pricing out of families from the catchment areas of good state schools. Which is stealth exclusivity but somehow it is acceptable to spend to be in the catchment of a good state school but wrong to spend on the education of your child.

I'm inclined to agree OP. I have experience of Christs Hospital - not a state boarding school but has a massive bursary fund and takes a number of pupils each year from some of the very poorest families. It keeps the children out of the way of gangs and county lines and gives bright but impoverished children the sort of step up that grammar schools used to offer. I have come across a number of teenagers over the years who would have benefited massively from being taken out of their home environment to board somewhere safer where they could be surrounded by an environment that valued education and offered opportunities that were otherwise totally unavailable.

it would be interesting to find out if those voting against have experience of state boarding schools

OH went to a state boarding school. Horrible. But then he came from a pretty horrid family.

State Boarding Schools definitely have a place. In my family they were used some time ago to stop a family member needing to go into care. Family provision could be found to cover school holidays but not permanently. A Boarding place was found and it worked really well (Wymondham College). The standards of SBS are high generally and it is a cheaper option than care.

There are state boarding schools in Scotland for kids in remote and rural areas without a big smog population for high school

My dd went to specialist state boarding, fees for boarding were based on income, education was free. Was really good but it was very much a specialised school.

In Scotland it's more common to board if you live remotely and the schools are standard comps with a boarding hostel, nothing like the luxury of trad boarding schools and a friend who went to one said you have to be quite mature to cope at 11 as it's tough, they plan to move before their dd reaches 11.

My DC are at a state boarding school as day pupils. Our experience has been really positive.

I can't imagine wanting your young child to live outside the home nevermind in another country!

@Jk987 Interesting thought but not relevant to the question.
Our education system, through years of government tinkering and underfunding is not serving the community in the same way it used to.
School systems appear to still be set up on the idea that children live in a 2 parent family, with parents working standard hours.
Looking for options - albeit paid for (and state boarding schools can offer extended hours for pupils) can keep children focussed and in an environment which is familiar.
No school is perfect and there will always be the good and the bad. However instead of squeezing a system which is already stretched we should be providing options to parents which could encourage more teachers back / into the profession.
From the posters, I haven’t heard of the kind of behaviour which makes teaching such a toxic environment.
The government should be looking at systems which work and which allow parents to work whilst ensuring their children are within a safe environment with access to a childhood.
We need to do better for both teachers and children alike.
I was positing an idea that I had not heard mentioned and which, like other posters, I had heard good things about.

This doesn't list state schools that have boarding provision in my area so I'd imagine there are more.

Yes there are in England too.

Eh? Boarding school is a last resort for people who are moving around with job etc

Its not actually good for children

The government should be looking at systems which work and which allow parents to work whilst ensuring their children are within a safe environment with access to a childhood.

Ooh like state orphanages?

This does NOT sound like it has the children's best interests at heart.