To wonder how we ever did 5 days a week in an office?

[OptimismvsRealism]

I work hard and love my job (legal). Spent a day in the office today for the first time in months and honestly feel sick. The people flu! I couldn't go back. All those blokes in the City saying WFH was an "aberration" are deluded.

I get that some people love it and there's enough diversity in this world for everyone to find their niche but Oh My God am I glad I don't have to do the daily traipse any more.

It’s always striking to me that some of the loudest voices decrying WFH are those who are retired and no longer working (some of whom may not have worked for decades).

In short, people who don’t know that colleagues are more connected than ever before via Microsoft Teams and email and who just don’t understand the world of modern work.

I did office wfh way back, 10-20 years ago, before you could just login via the web or apps. It was slower and you had to port in to your work system directly, cannot remember how. I eulogised about it then, my girl friends didn’t ask their own jobs if they could do it themselves but instead struggled with childcare, sometimes in tears over work hours and commutes. Their jobs probably could not accommodate but actually nobody asked their work.

What are you on about? I'm talking about people being onsite in work....I know all about modern communications tech and how to use an app and I haven't used a bank branch in years....have you always been this patronising or did you take a course?

let me give you an example of how WFH impacts the shop floor where I work.

The machine I use relies on precise specs which, if out by so much as a millimetre would render the product unfit for purpose. Now back in the old days it would be a quick 5 minute walk to the planners office, a quick chat with him and QA (who shared his office), and the issue would be sorted. Now we have to email the problem, wait for a reply (which could take a while), email response to his questions, wait for reply, wait for QA (who are cc'd in all emails about such things) to download the new specs, read them, email planning guy who would then email to say "go ahead". The best part of 2 hours with 1 machine out of production all because the planning guy cba to be in his office anymore.

That's what I mean. You need to get comfortable with that style of interaction.
This also frees the planning guy up to cover multiple sites. It's the way of the future. Cosy onsite support is like staff canteens these days (ie it happens but it's rare). Not just about WFH - new ways of working.

I also doubt he was just waiting poised for you to ask for help before. More likely you resent delays more than you used to.

But there weren't delays before, if we had a problem he stopped whatever he was doing, we sorted it out and he continued with whatever he was doing before. As for getting more comfortable with those kind of delays....having 6 people stood about for 2 hours instead of 20 minutes tops is hardly productive is it? and we only have 1 site.

I think employers who can offer WFH have realised they need to allow some kind of hybrid working, or they can't recruit. They might not need to if the local employment market is not very competitive, but when other comparable organisations in the same area offer WFH, and you don't, you do lose out on candidates. You often lose the best candidates too, who can pick and choose where they work. But this causes huge issues for the pipe-line of professions that cannot work from home, it's a massive contributing factor to the recruitment crisis in public facing roles. Particularly graduate professions, where graduates can choose to do something where they have hybrid working, or do something like teaching for example where they do not. The lack of flexibility in some necessary public sector professions is a big problem, it's one that the next government will need to tackle somehow. Understaffing issues will continue to compound, making the problem worse, and it's already dire.

they tried to make me WFH and it didn’t work. I also hated it. Pref to be in the office a d be available. When i try to call someone who’s available and unresponsive, it makes me wonder what they’re doing. I once got a call back from a colleague who said they were selling a cooker and some one was collecting. In your own time, not work.

Drafting documents, researching (and up against a deadline), typing an email,.on the loo, taking a call on my work mobile...

Sometimes I show as available because I have logged into do something outside my actual working hours.

But, (in a different profession) those "quick chats " for another team were constant interruptions for me which meant I couldn't get on with my urgent task and often ended up doing it when I got home anyway

Yep. One person's quick chat is another person's significant, work adding interruption. Only thing is, a lot of the latter group hadn't really clocked that it could be different until March 2020.

@Thursdaygirl No, I never likened myself to a miner, but I used to find it hard. I don’t mind admitting it.

But it's not hard. You just don't like it.

Interesting that you are all about making work accessible but you have just provided an example of something - a banking app removing the need for branches - that is making basic life inaccessible for many that have physical, mental or financial challenges as well as the older population

It's impossible for a lot of people. Your ignorant and stubborn belief isn't fact.

Fair enough I do think there needs to be more variety on that side of things. But forcing people to come into an office because a number of people would prefer it isn't a solution.

You're not qualified to overrule someone else when it comes to their assessment of their subjective experiences.

That’s just bad planning though.

At my work, if someone needs something, they just jump onto teams and call/message. And get an instant reply/conversation, because everyone is working at their desk as they should be. It’s probably quicker than having to walk across the building to find the person you want to talk to.

100%!

Even in my first job straight out of uni, I would have loved WFH - even if a day or 2 in the office would have been useful from time to time.

I have made friends through work, but I have never used my workplace as my social life either. The time gained from not commuting would have gone straight to my hobbies where I met people with similar interest.

The problem is that WFH seems to work for professional efficient people.
*obviously talking about the only jobs that CAN be done from home! Remote firefighters or remote hairdressers.. doesn't quite work.

It doesn't seem to work so well with the ones who like to faff, waste hours with inane little chats, who would achieve nothing at all at home and picture everyone else lying in bed watching tv all day. It doesn't work for those who think it replaces childcare and they can look after their kids instead of working.

The ones who get the job done do it more efficiently at home, and have an actual life out of whatever working hours they do.

Those who think showing their face is enough, who talk about their "work family" are probably ruining it for the rest!

That's so true

But in my experience the ones doing absolutely nothing at home were often the same people who tried to get away with doing as little as possible in the office.

But yes, having toddlers there while you "work" , blatantly being very underproductive, being reluctant to put camera on for teams calls etc all ruin it for those people who work incredibly hard at home

It was literally on a mezzanine floor above the factory floor. It's not possible to just "jump onto teams" in an environment that is so noisy it's mandatory to wear ear-defenders. Hopefully management will see that planning guy WFH is costing the company ££ in stoppage time and lost production and will actually listen to those of us saying he needs to return to the site full-time.

People will piss about in any environment.

However, even in those cases where it could be objectively shown that a role is more efficiently done in person, that still doesn't mean the organisation will be able to get anyone to do it for the price they're prepared to pay. You can stop someone from working remotely, but you can't make them work in person. This is one of the complicating factors.

I'm WFH now. I couldn't work for my employer without being wfh as my commute would be minimum 4.5 hours each way. I work in the same field as my previous job which required being on site full time but my new job and role is fully wfh. Love it.

There is a lot of inward looking when WFH and how it works for that particular individual. No one will ever acknowledge that there are downsides, even when a pp pointed out difficulties it was very much "tough, adapt with the times"

I don't know if I count as "the older population" I'm mid 40s.
Myself and my husband wanted to open a new business bank account. You can't do it via the app. It took 6 weeks to get a phone call....which took 2 minutes and they emailed some forms.....which we filled in.That was 3 weeks ago, we still haven't got the new account number, but yeah closing branches is so much more efficient! (I say this as someone who does 99% of banking on my phone)