How easy is it to emigrate to Europe from the Uk?

[ruperto]

I have a friend who says she’s going to move to Europe in within the next 2 years.

Normally I would be very upset to hear this as she is a dear friend and I would miss her, but she has said this before (it was New Zealand last time), so before I go getting upset about this I’m just wondering how realistic it really is.

She doesn't work at the moment (qualified as a teacher but only ever worked as a TA- her choice) she’s looking after the children (6 and 2). Her husband is also a teacher (Art, but full time as supply at two different schools at the moment).

No other languages, not much savings.

They’re talking about going to Spain, or Portugal or Italy and living in a campervan for a while before choosing which area they want to live in.

Is this realistic? Would they need to find jobs before going? Sort proper accommodation? Is there a time limit on how long they could stay?

The competition for jobs in the better international schools is fierce. They would be competing with people from all over the world and those with experience in the International Baccalaureate system are preferred.

I'm in the Netherlands and the only way for a British secondary/primary teacher to be employed by Dutch/international schools now is if they have dual EU citizenship, spousal visa or if their institution sponsors them (this is common in HE but not in 4-18 education, even in international schools).

You can move to portugal if you can prove a certain amount of passive income. So in practice this means there are retirees on their pensions and lots of people who have income from their own businesses.

So your friends could set up a freelance tutoring business and pay themselves in dividends. I think they would need to take around 18€k per year in household income (I don't know exactly). Then I believe they could move to portugal.

Depends on occupation and assets, in an in demand occupation it's easy enough but you essentially need a sponsor or alternatively if you want to retire/work remotely there's visas for each of those, some countries are easier than others

It's not as pie in the sky as you might think. The rules are different from country to country, but if they can prove they have a financial cushion to support themselves (ususally on a sliding scale depending on size of family) then they can take up residency elsewhere. That could be a lump sum in the bank, or a UK-based income for work that can be done remotely, or income from a business they set up in the new location. The financial cushion they'd need isn't necessarily huge (I only know the figure for one EU country offhand, so I won't quote it as it's probably not relevant, but it's less than I expected). They'll need to be on their toes as regards business set-up, taxation, etc, and if either of them has an outstanding student loan in the UK, they'd want to look in to whether that would become repayable at a higher rate or immediately, but it's doable if they're serious about the admin.

If they don't have much in the way of savings and don't intend to work initially, it starts to look a whole lot less realistic. The idea that an employer would sponsor them for visas when one's an art teacher, one's a sahp and neither speak the language probably is pie in the sky tbh.

The other thing they could do is plan longer-term by moving to Ireland first, staying 5 years, naturalising and then moving on as EU citizens. But by that time their kids will be settled in the Irish school system, and in any case Ireland has an acute housing shortage and they really don't need loads of Brits rocking up and making it worse, so I can't say I'd recommend that pathway really, especially with no savings.

Are you sure about that? This survey says different

"The survey reveals that 95% of EU-based expatriates who voted in the 2016 referendum favoured Remain over Leave"

Seems strange for ex-Pats in Spain to be so against the trend

So should I press on with plans to relocate to Quimper ( Brittany) ? I am 66 / ex teacher EU(Irish) passport - full state pension ( thank goodness) or will this not be a feasible option? 👍☘️

@Sarahzb The lobster-red "retired British ex-pat in Spain" is a lazy stereotype wheeled out by the media every time they need a photo or whenever the Daily Mail needs a comment from someone complaining that they can't stay in Spain any longer because those EU bureaucrats have decided to "take control of the borders" and kick out anyone found to have been abusing the system.

There are over a million British citizens living and working in the EU and most are not in Spain. The vast majority who moved before Brexit and who have retained their residency rights are working in schools, hospitals, factories, warehouses, bars, offices and so on - i.e. doing the same regular type of work that they might have been doing had they stayed in the UK.

Go onto the french consulate website, there is a helpful flowchart but with an EU passport you have different requirements than for us without.

We needed a place to stay, which was easy as we were buying a house, and money in the bank or an income to cover about €1200 a month each, plus medical insurance for the first year which was about €2k each. Then when you are in the system you will probably need top up mutuelle insurance to cover any medical costs above around 75-80% if medical costs.

I imagine some or all of those things apart from the medical insurance will be not required with your passport.

The difference with Portugal and Spain I think is that they do allow visas for digital nomads, so working online delivering whatever anywhere in the world. Whereas for France they don't. Not sure about Italy. So it would be doable if they were doing language courses online or something. Which they would have to learn the language well to be able to do.

Depends how much cash you have and your profession.
Friend of mine lives in Portugal now (post Brexit) but still works in the UK as her role is almost 100% remote (she flies back periodically for the odd in person thing). She has a nomadic visa.

Can’t see that working for teachers though.

@eveoha

With an EU passport you have freedom of movement - in principle the right to live anywhere in the EU. You will still be subject to some local rules such as minimum levels of income and/or savings - basically you have to show that you will not be a burden on the country to which you move - and some countries have other checks such as requiring a clean criminal record.

As you have a State pension (from IRE or UK?) check whether or not this also covers your healthcare in the EU, which saves you a heap of hassle and money. The "S1" certificate is the one you need.

Thanks for that info Hava - off to google S1 and flights to Plouguffan airport 👍☘️

@eveoha

S1 info here > Standard forms for social security rights - Your Europe (europa.eu)

Just depends what you mean by that. You have heard of Brexit, I suppose!

As far as immigration is concerned, it is no longer!

We Brexited from the EU, not from Europe. Unless we've been towed somewhere else.

We are drifiting that is true. But we are talking in this thread about the ability of British citizens to move to (continental) Europe- and Brexit has changed it all.

Um yes, Brexit has haunted my dreams for the last 8 years. It's the use of Europe to mean the EU I am picking up on - the kind of lazy thinking that I partly blame for the referendum result.

Nothing 'lazy' about my comment.

Well I'm confused as I know people living in Spain and Italy who don't have EU passports, are retired, but definitely don't return to the UK every 90 days. I'm not close enough to them to ask about their personal circumstances, but I'd love to know how they do it ( both moved abroad before brexit).

As teachers they could apply to all the international schools that use English. There are loads. But not necessarily in the countries they prefer. Still, it's a start.

They land their first job. Stay in that country and pass the tests for citizenship then they can go anywhere in the EU no bother at all. That's what I have done.

Imagine that? We used to have that.

I don’t know about Italy and Spain but some countries including France and Greece have “financially independent” visas - if you can prove you have a certain income a month and tick various other financial boxes then you can live there (basically if you’re not going to be job seeking or a burden on the state). So retired people with decent pensions could use this. Doesn’t seem likely to apply to the OP’s friends though.

Isn't it if you had moved and had the right paperwork all filed pre Brexit then you are Ok to stay as long as you like?

But I think it’s mainly to do with being an island

Yes. Everything to do with it I think. I was in Germany at the weekend and went off for a drive into the Netherlands with a friend. One side of the road was in the Netherlands, the other side in Germany. I wandered around, bought a takeaway coffee in one place and some coffee to take home in the other. After that we crossed into Belgium. Three countries in one day, and with no effort other than getting in the car and filling it with petrol.

If you want to leave Great Britain, you have to pre-plan and buy an (expensive) ticket for a ferry, train or plane. You can't just jump in your car or on your bike and go out for the day.

It does explain a huge amount. I wish it were easier to travel to continental Europe.

You answer your own question - they moved to the EU before Brexit.

Over a million British citizens were living in the EU - workers, SAHMs, business owners, retirees etc - and as part of the Withdrawal Agreement these people were entitled to continue to live in the EU as long as they met the residence requirements. They had to apply for an "Article 50" residence permit, which for most was a formality. Brirish pensioners who moved to the EU before Jan 2021 were entitled to residency (but only in one country - e.g. they cannot subsequently move from Spain to Italy).

The people who got caught out were people who were abusing the system, for example by staying in Spain without registering or paying tax (a requirement even before Brexit for anyone staying more than 90 days) and returning to the UK for healthcare or trying to use their UK EHIC cards when as residents, they should have been paying into the Spanish health system.