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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"nursing shortages" but no vacancies?

29 replies

blarneebeekeeper · 29/05/2024 08:43

This isn't an AIBU per se, but conversations need to be happening surrounding the current state of recruitment within the NHS.

I am lucky, i have been a nurse for a number of years and i have a hospital based job i love. I also have numerous student nurses per year in my role as a placement assessor and have the privilege of working with some fantastic students in recent years who will go one to be brilliant nurses. Locally, student nurses places available have increased 50% at one university since 2020, and another university added an additional campus which became affiliated with our trust, this doubled the amount of students having placements in our trust on the whole. With awareness being raised surrounding the shortage of nurses in the UK, this was good news.

However, in the last 12-18 months, the government also massively increased the recruit from over seas initiative. One trust reported that they had had over 350 nurses recruited from overseas, and that almost all vacancies had been filled by these nurses ( BBC News Article ). Each nurses recruited from overseas costs the NHS approximately £10-12k, however the shortages when the drive was initiated were so high that it justified the costing to bring in much needed nursing staff. This is a common picture across UK trusts. The NHS would absolutely cease to function (more so than the current failures that we see and hear about daily) without recruitment from overseas, it is vital. And the majority of these nurses are fantastic and we are lucky to have them. Obviously there are a minority where their training is sub-optimal, and the NHS has to provide further training at further costs, and there was scandal surrounding nurses recruited from Nigeria who hadn't received the formal training they stated they had had and were completely unqualified (Guardian Article ). However, this was a very small number in comparison to the amount of nurses recruited.

Don't be fooled into believing this means wards and departments are running with the correct number of staff - it does not. They are still being ran below optimal ratios. It means there are no more vacancies, as wards and departments are not being given the budgets to hire the amount of staff they need to run at full staffing levels, the use of high costs agency nurses, and bank staff paid at higher rates than contracted staff are still used. But it does mean that newly qualified nurses, nurses that trained within trusts, to the UK standard of nursing education, and gave 2300 hours of unpaid working hours to these trusts, often filling in as unpaid heath care support workers rather than prioritising their learning, now do not have a job when they graduate.

Locally, after a recruitment event, this equated to some 40% of the students qualifying do not have jobs. There are currently 5 band 5 (which is the banding for a newly qualified nurse) advertised nursing roles, none of which accepting NQN's due to the nature of the position. This is the same up and down the country. 1000's of students, tens of thousands of pounds in debt, having worked in essence for free for 3 years, will not have a job to go into. Nurses are leaving the NHS in droves, but these positions are not put out to recruit for, as the money has been spent on overseas recruitment and wards do not have the budgets.

Currently, there isn't a solution for this, we cant just take the jobs back from the overseas nurses, and this isn't their fault, they are, as i said a vital addition, and they are fantastic nurses for the most part. But i wanted to raise awareness, that if my large trust is a true representation of the state of NHS England on the whole, approximately 40% of new graduate nurse, cannot find employment.

OP posts:
blarneebeekeeper · 29/05/2024 18:16

shameless bump

OP posts:
birdling · 29/05/2024 19:43

That's terrible!

Spirallingdownwards · 29/05/2024 19:44

Send them up round our way where there seem to be a number of vacancies.

Nursemumma92 · 29/05/2024 19:52

How terrible for those student nurses! This is certainly not the case in the South west, despite recruiting a similar number of international nurses last year in our trust, we still have many vacancies (10 full time posts just in my department) and all departments accept NQN's.

NeelyOHara1 · 29/05/2024 19:57

Hopefully the NHS/Gov powers that be are aware of this overlap and are future planning accordingly 🙏.

CormorantStrikesBack · 29/05/2024 19:57

Lots of vacancies here and not much overseas recruitment. Local trust tried it and it didn’t work out, the people/cohort who came was quite small in the end and took some training i believe. So it hasn’t been repeated.

Pin0cchio · 29/05/2024 19:59

Is it definitely the case across all departments? My friend said there's a recurring issue with everyone wanting to go into popular areas and some specialisms badly short of staff.

There's definitely regional imbalance too. Its the same in teaching. It should be made clearer at the outset of courses if vacancy levels are low in the local area.

muddyboots · 29/05/2024 19:59

Same in our Trust. Lots of student nurses qualifying this summer who are struggling to find jobs thanks to a very successful recruitment of nurses from South India.
The chat from my Trust was 'Don't worry, they'll only stay for a couple of years and then they'll leave' but lots of my colleagues are having babies and buying houses and have no intention of moving on.
It's a real shame for our students who were assured there would be jobs for them and have worked so hard.

RagzRebooted · 29/05/2024 20:00

I've seen this mentioned a lot on the NursingUk subreddit recently. It does seem to be the case across many (not all) trusts. Especially worrying re the NQNs as they used to be pretty much guaranteed a job.
I've noticed a drop in vacancies in the area I'm moving to over the last year (I keep an eye of NHS jobs).

nothingcomestonothing · 29/05/2024 20:25

My Trust has a rolling job ad for band 5s, we constantly struggle for nurses. I live in an expensive part of the UK where you'd certainly not get a mortgage on band 5 (or 6, or possibly 7). Some of my colleagues live 2 hours away, not practical when working shifts. There are jobs but I don't know who could afford to live close enough to take them.

youhavenoidea123 · 03/07/2024 22:03

My DD is qualifying this year. She chose to go away for uni, so didn't study in within our local trust.

She applied for and was successful at interview for an NQN role in our local trust. So did not apply for a job in the city where she has attended uni where she would have been guaranteed a job.

Last week our local trust called her and withdrew the job offer. They have no funding and need to prioritise those who trained in the trust.

It is too late to apply for the guarantee job where she trained. A number of her friends are still waiting to hear if they have a job via this promise, so it doesn't appear to be guaranteed this year.

So three years of training and at the moment zero job opportunities.

There are plenty of band 5 jobs. But they are not NQN jobs she can apply for.

I feel totally gutted for her and a number of her friends.

She is now considering applying anywhere in the UK and going into a house share so she can complete her preceptorship.

youhavenoidea123 · 03/07/2024 22:05

@nothingcomestonothing does that include NQN's or is the advert for experienced band 5's.

Zoflorabore · 03/07/2024 22:13

My niece qualified this year too and did the majority of her training at a large children’s hospital in the NW which is very well regarded and always busy.
she was under the impression like many others that there was a huge shortage of nurses and when it came to applying for jobs there were way more applicants than jobs and hardly anyone from her cohort was offered a job.

luckily, dd was offered a job there and started a few months ago and she loves it but said so many of her class still don’t have jobs. I was shocked how many hours she had to do unpaid as part of her training but obviously that’s how the students learn.

CormorantStrikesBack · 03/07/2024 22:42

I’m actually now seeing a lot on TikTok about this from upset students and NQs who can’t get jobs so it seems to be an increasing issue. Problem is that recruitment onto nursing degrees will fall. People won’t train if they think they won’t get a job at the end.

youhavenoidea123 · 03/07/2024 22:51

@CormorantStrikesBack if my DD and her cohort were not in this situation, I would not believe how bad it is.

I really hope this hits mainstream news. It needs to be highlighted.

Pippa12 · 03/07/2024 22:57

There is no funding for nurses in many areas. My trust have launched a ‘recruitment freeze’. Vacancies will not be filled for the foreseeable future. Job offers have been rescinded, even those due to start imminently.

It’s a poor state of affairs sadly.

Straycatblue · 03/07/2024 23:00

Lots of trusts have implemented job freezes

So all the vacancies are still there but they just can't afford to fill them so the wards run even shorter of staff than before

youhavenoidea123 · 03/07/2024 23:06

@Pippa12 that is what happened to my DD her job offer has been rescinded. It's an awful state of affair's.

It feels worse that it's in the news daily that there is a nurse shortage, so when my DD tells people I'm sure they don't believe her.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 03/07/2024 23:23

However, in the last 12-18 months, the government also massively increased the recruit from over seas initiative

This is happening with doctors too. Good way to break the nhs and its professions completely, and they are, and also privatising as they go.

Aconite20 · 04/07/2024 03:48

People outside the NHS wouldn't believe how badly run it is right now - it isn't just the funding, it's the management. Actually, I wouldn't have believed how badly run the part of the country where we currently live is if I hadn't experienced it for myself, it is unbelievably corrupt for starters. We previously lived in the south west which is incredibly well run by comparison - obviously there are problems and the lifestyle and weather help but it is literally like living in two different countries.

Where we are currently will almost certainly end up being at the centre of a scandal of some kind involving nurses or doctors who have lied about their qualifications or are incapable of communicating and end up doing untold patient harm.

The majority of overseas clinicians are fantastic and much needed but there is a hard core minority that I sincerely hope will never be in charge or even anywhere near my family's treatment. In addition the way the funding has been applied means a horrifying shortfall for "home grown" clinical professionals.

The national Health Sector has always been lousy at workforce planning, I believe it's too difficult for the overstuffed Department of Health to work out (I've never understood why we have BOTH NHS England and the DoH...). Just wait until the nurses my sort of age start retiring, 50+ and the demographic hollow really kicks in.

I am a staunch defender of the NHS but it really does need a serious review. And no, privatisation is not the answer, there won't be any more nurses, it's not like you can just knit them though the government seems to think you can.

Carriemac · 04/07/2024 06:53

There are a huge amount of junior doctors who can't get training posts also. Expanding medical school places and then a bottleneck 2 years after qualification - crazy .

nothingcomestonothing · 04/07/2024 07:30

youhavenoidea123 · 03/07/2024 22:05

@nothingcomestonothing does that include NQN's or is the advert for experienced band 5's.

Yes it does, but if the pay wouldn't allow you to live within 2 hours of the hospital how can they work shifts? There isn't even staff parking and public transport wouldn't be running for lates/ nights. It's a problem I can't see a solution for.

daffodilandtulip · 04/07/2024 07:54

My friend is just about to finish her nursing degree and has only managed to get a 12 hour contract.

youhavenoidea123 · 04/07/2024 10:11

@nothingcomestonothing to be honest I am going to probably have to support my DD live away if she cannot get a job locally.

She does have an interview next week for a trust in London. We are not London based. So I will end up subsidising her if she is successful. At the moment there is no other options.

nothingcomestonothing · 04/07/2024 12:18

youhavenoidea123 · 04/07/2024 10:11

@nothingcomestonothing to be honest I am going to probably have to support my DD live away if she cannot get a job locally.

She does have an interview next week for a trust in London. We are not London based. So I will end up subsidising her if she is successful. At the moment there is no other options.

It's a mess isn't it? You shouldn't have to do that.

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