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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That not all jobs are equal

129 replies

Jobqualifications · 29/05/2024 02:24

There’s often a lot of heightened emotions about salaries on here, where low wages jobs are equally, if not harder work than high paying jobs.
What do people think makes a high paid job? Why do people seem to resent them?
I’ve been a SAHM, and for me that was my hardest job ever….predominantly out of boredom and monotony.

OP posts:
BlueJamSandwich · 29/05/2024 08:18

Jobqualifications · 29/05/2024 02:38

I disagree….surely the mental effort a vet puts in is higher than that of someone at the supermarket checkout

Maybe. I'm an academic now, but I've also been a manual labourer, window cleaner, gardener & worked in retail etc. We had a pensions expert come in and the thing that resonated with me was that the damage done from a mentally stressful occupation goes when you retire. The damage done from a physically demanding job doesn't.

BlueJamSandwich · 29/05/2024 08:31

Zanatdy · 29/05/2024 08:09

Well it’s definitely not like that in my team. They are given a certain amount of cases per day. They process them. If there’s a problem they escalate it up, end of their involvement. It’s nothing like running multiple teams with multiple problems going on that managers need to sort out, resources issuing, world crisis that need process changes in 24hrs. None of that involves the workers. I guess it depends on the organisation and what the managers do, just line managers I’d say they probably have limited stress, managing multiple operational teams, somewhat different.

I think I know the research @Equivo is referring to. From what I remember it showed that typically the more responsibility in a role meant the more control and input that employee had within the organisation. That resulted in typically less stress and more job satisfaction than for somebody lower down in the organisation's structure.

NeverEnoughPants · 29/05/2024 08:39

VJBR · 29/05/2024 07:55

Maybe they should swap jobs then. The vet could work in the supermarket and the check out person could be a vet. Oh wait….

Umm... Do you disagree with anything that I said, or are you just making an irrelevant point for the hell of it?

BlueJamSandwich · 29/05/2024 08:43

If it really was the case that hard work gets rewarded and we look at the demographics of the highest salaried, wouldn't that suggest that white men from wealthy backgrounds must be the hardest workers?

Ginmonkeyagain · 29/05/2024 08:47

It's a jobs MARKET. Supply and demand applies just like any market. Many more people can be cleaners than can be vets. So the price is lower. Nothing to do with your value to society or how many hours you work.

TheChippendenSpook · 29/05/2024 08:52

DoAWheelie · 29/05/2024 02:36

Pay has never really reflected how hard you actually work.

There are people on millions who spend all day golfing and people on sub minimum wage working 20 hours a day.

If we all just accepted it and stopped with the fake outrage of "but I work hard for my money" it would be a lot easier to have a frank discussion.

Your wage is directly related to how much your employer can profit from what you do. This has nothing to do with how much effort that job is.

Amen!

piejetyellow · 29/05/2024 08:57

There isnt a direct correlation between hard work and pay. I'm in the easiest job I've had right now earning the most I ever have, it's not stressful, there isn't actually much accountability in this role either actually although do admit I've stumbled across a bit of a unicorn. Though part of the reason I find it so easy is because of my years of experience doing it. I've never really had a physically taxing job, and genuinely found entry level roles where I was micromanaged and more customer facing much more stressful than board meetings and presentations.

Luio · 29/05/2024 08:57

Judging from the 1000s of pupils that I have taught, and their parents, people’s perception of hard work varies enormously. The same goes for people’s ability to withstand pressure.

Eeeden · 29/05/2024 08:57

Jobqualifications · 29/05/2024 02:38

I disagree….surely the mental effort a vet puts in is higher than that of someone at the supermarket checkout

Even if the wages were reversed I'd rather be a low paid vet than a decently paid cleaner of public toilets. Some jobs you couldn't pay me enough to do and most of them are very poorly paid.
You may need more qualifications to be a vet. I like studying. I really enjoyed university. I would find being a vet interesting and much more pleasant than I would find scrubbing public toilets which seem to be getting more and more disgusting.

If all jobs were paid the same I think most people would choose the jobs that are currently well paid if they could. Very few would be wanting to do the manual labour whilst being ordered about type jobs that are currently paid minimum wage.

daisychain01 · 29/05/2024 09:01

There’s often a lot of heightened emotions about salaries on here, where low wages jobs are equally, if not harder work than high paying jobs

Have you ever thought that reason this discussion is so contested on here is because it's a pointless circular argument trying to compare apples to oranges to bananas - different types of roles, the money they each attract, how hard they are to do and how much worth is placed on job types.

By describing the different jobs as either needing brain-power compared to being mind-numbingly boring/dull/menial is bound to insult people doing the jobs described like that. Yup feel free to kick at someone working in the supermarket or the waiter/waitress or the Amazon driver - presumably you benefit from the services being provided.

People do the best they can with the availability of work in their area and the choice of options they have, their family demands and their life opportunities etc - why is there an incessant need on here to be so churlish and rub people's noses in it?

TheChippendenSpook · 29/05/2024 09:03

parttimeweddingplanner · 29/05/2024 05:40

There are many, many jobs that are really tough, that aren't compensated properly, many of them those traditionally considered "woman's work" like nursing, teaching and social work.

Each of those jobs comes with huge responsibility, skill and mental load, far beyond what a lot of senior managers in non caring roles could handle IMO. But are not compensated properly as they are absolutely taken for granted.

You're utterly naive if you think higher salary = higher mental load. Perhaps within some sectors that's true if you look at the jobs at the top Vs other jobs in the same sector. But it's not true for every sector, nor if you compare difference sectors, necessarily.

I absolutely agree. I was a nursery nurse for years on low pay and that was the hardest job I have ever had.

The hours were long and physically and mentally draining but I left because of the pay and feeling unappreciated for what I was actually doing for living. I was earning about 10p an hour above the minimum wage when I left and I got sick and tired of hearing the old 'I work hard for my money !'

My ex husband works in computing and he earned four times my meagre wage. He admitted that my job was physically and mentally harder than his.

WonderingWanda · 29/05/2024 09:05

I've just taken on a middle leader role in a school, it is not worth the extra £5000 I'm being paid. It seems that now everyone I am managing can tell me their rights with regard to not doing additional work....so I have to do it all and slt spend all day sitting in their offices thinking up new jobs for me to do. I need to do at least one more year to be sure its been a massive mistake but I'm fairly certain. Also if I calculate my hourly rate based on actual hours worked rather than the directed time I don't get much more than an amazon delivery driver so, that's my next career after this one.

LoisFarquar · 29/05/2024 09:05

Luio · 29/05/2024 08:57

Judging from the 1000s of pupils that I have taught, and their parents, people’s perception of hard work varies enormously. The same goes for people’s ability to withstand pressure.

This is true. I’m an academic, from a family where everyone before me left school at 12/13 and worked in low-paid unskilled jobs. I’m in my 50s and my dad still doesn’t understand that I don’t clock in and out and do overtime or what I’m doing when I’m not actually standing in a lecture theatre in front of 200 first years, or why I don’t get paid for writing books. All my family doing factory work, street sweeping etc worked incredibly hard in often poor conditions. They also got paid very little and left their work behind as soon as they clocked out. My work is never-ending, but flexible, interesting and not physically taxing.

MissUnderscore · 29/05/2024 09:29

Cost of supply of labour vs demand for labour. Sadly, it's a market.

Rant below!

This is why you get the same role in the same company, but with different pay across the globe (or within countries). Little has to do with the "cost of living" in those geographies, instead it is all about the cost of labour.

If you live in a place (e.g., silicon valley) with loads of companies looking for the same "talent" -and creating a shortage - then the cost of that "talent" goes up: Workers have more money to spend on housing, food etc. So those costs go up too, creating very high cost of living places, which then "justifies" the higher wages. However, if you look at inflation - as we have had recently, almost 30% over the past 3 years - you don't typically see wages rising in line with inflation. In fact, my company has reduced wages for new hires because there is an oversupply of "talent" right now due to so many lay-offs in my sector (Tech). Large companies also don't tend to increase wages with profits, instead that profit goes to the shareholders.

My easiest jobs were the most high paid and required advanced education (e.g. a PhD, which automatically reduced the labour pool). My hardest jobs were call centre, care work and waitressing pre-PhD, which were the lowest paid.

It also has nothing to do with "value" or inherently producing something of high "value". My company is involved in making products, which although generate large revenue, are almost useless to society. Additionally, people working for my company in "everyday" jobs (e.g. shop floor, warehouse etc.) still get paid minimum wage.

I think many people end up in lower paid jobs because when they were making decisions (e.g. about further study, where to live etc.) they either didn't know enough about jobs and the labour market, or had fewer opportunities. E.g. a 17 year old thinking: "I'm going to do an English Lit degree because I love the subject. Once I have a degree I will get a good job I love, purely by having a degree". The 17 year old's parents never went to uni and are on minimum wage so cannot advise. Mabe they live in a part of the country with few high quality jobs (e.g. a coastal town) and want to stay close to family, so when they finish school get a job as a cleaner or in a bar. State schools and universities are useless at career advice. This decision shapes the child's opportunities for life. It has nothing to do with lack of hard work, intelligence, an easy job etc.

In the past, if you worked full time you could afford basic things - almost like a right, you didn't have to count yourself lucky to have a car, a house, food, heating. The dad who left school with 0 qualifications and supported a family of 5 by working in a factory, even buying his own house. Nowadays, you have professionals (nurses, teachers) using food banks, freezing in the winter and being told to count yourself lucky because it could be worse - don't you dare expect a holiday or some new clothes.

Why should a full-time worker need universal credit? They shouldn't need it: A full time job should pay enough for food, rent, luxuries (e.g. the cinema, new clothes, a take away, a coffee out) etc. The Government has well and truely f*ed us. Instead, the Government has chosen to divert taxes to subsidise companies paying low wages - it only helps the company's profits, which isn't passed on to workers, nor is it reflected in their tax. Don't start me on private landlords and buy-to-let, with housing benefit (aka our taxes) directly benefitting landlords and the banks.

Mangoooo · 29/05/2024 09:40

Jobqualifications · 29/05/2024 03:08

But everyone can work the same hours, it’s the mental load that differs

A band 5 nurse earns £27k-£32k. Directors of Diversity in the NHS are on £100k!

PropertyManager · 29/05/2024 09:53

Not all jobs are equal, some have a greater impact than others, my late uncle was an high up executive at at a firm called GEC, in finance, was paid a fortune - when he left he got a carriage clock and that was that, he was likely forgotten two weeks later - GEC no longer exists, nothing he would have done in the 60's/70's/80's exists or matters any more.

Conversely, walking round Highgate Cemetery recently I got chatting with the stone mason who carves many of the gravestones there, and built the most recent limestone mausoleum - he likely earns a decent, but not huge wage, yet his work will endure for hundreds of years, admired and enjoyed by relatives and visitors alike.

OnePerkyTurtle · 29/05/2024 10:02

I understand what you mean. But how do you then square the roles and pay of people like nurses and police officers who go out and put themselves in danger every day, see horrible things and have people’s lives in their hands, working long, unsociable hours while under intense pressure with poor staffing levels? Most people wouldn’t or couldn’t cope with that type of work so I also feel that those kinds of jobs should pay much better compared to office roles which may well have stresses and responsibility but certainly not to the same level.

Ginmonkeyagain · 29/05/2024 10:48

Because a lot of people want to be nurses and police officers and the entry level jobs in those areas are not that hard to get?

Those professions also have the other issue of national pay bargaining holding down wage inflation.

Sparkymoo · 29/05/2024 11:13

It's sector too. I have moved from charity to corporate, very similar role. I now earn 20% more. Next year it will be more like 35% more as I will be eligible for annual bonus. My job is easier, I don't manage a team, I bring a lot of experience but I would to my next charity sector job too. I suppose my experience is unusual in the corporate sector but it's not unusual in terms of potential applicants for the role.

OnePerkyTurtle · 29/05/2024 11:49

I think I’d respectfully disagree at the moment, looking at the recruitment and retention problems in both sectors. Both professions require a degree along with significant vetting, medicals, financials etc that many people working in other roles would not successfully pass at the moment. Maybe those types of job are attractive to people for the perceived societal benefit they provide rather than the money but personally you couldn’t pay me enough to do them. The pay they receive for what they have to do baffles me.

therealcookiemonster · 29/05/2024 12:50

all sahm parents should get a salary + pension contributions from state if their children are below school age. fully paid maternity leave for 12 months.

pay in key professions - teachers, healthcare workers, police, fire service should be much much higher
no bonuses for bankers and fines/jail time for ceos when their company is negligent/causes harm eg. Thames water/the post office
bonuses in the private sector to be capped and if the company makes huge losses, no one gets bonuses and the pay for top earners is capped at say 1 mill or less

StormingNorman · 29/05/2024 14:04

caringcarer · 29/05/2024 07:49

I think skill and how hard to replace that PP suggested is accurate. Think of a Premier league football player. Hard to replace with lots of skill in their position. Lots of people can play football but few at the premier level.

They also make their employer a LOT of money.

nearlylovemyusername · 29/05/2024 14:19

One of the very first statements I heard from a CFO of a multinational when I just joined labour market as a trainee was "you shouldn't work hard, you should work smart".
This makes all the difference.

Plus working hard is subjective - who ever admits having it easy? and accepting that you're in a low paid job because of own skills/qualities/attitude etc rather than life's being unfair to you?

AGlinnerOfHope · 29/05/2024 14:59

Any job is hard when you are the wrong fit.

The perfect job may feel easy because you’re the right fit. DH couldn’t have done mine, and I couldn’t do his.

Oblomov24 · 29/05/2024 15:01

Not always. I know loads of people in high paid jobs that don't have all the things mentioned: not that much stress, not that much responsibility, not that much technical or specialist knowledge.

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