To have thought it was normal to retire from the nhs on your 60th birthday

[Vinteduser8]

Colleague is sixty late July. I asked him what plans he had for retirement and he wasn’t happy as he has no plans to retire.

@yumyumyumy

I am HR so it doesn't really affect me but I see both sides of the argument.

The older senior people on average came into their roles much younger than our current crop of staff so have had many years earning at the highest level we really offer. We can't demote them or pay them less due to age as quite a part from anything else it would be morally wrong but I can also see that many of them no longer really care and lack the drive some of our up coming staff have who may now do a better job but don't have the opportunity to have their turn.

I also can see your point around clearly not being ageist.

I have no solutions but I can see the problem getting worse and trickier to navigate as retirement is pushed later by various factors.

I do think there is a reason why a lot of partnerships have a compulsory retirement age though.

Don't even have to retire and return now with NHS - can take pension and continue as you were but have to have a greater than 10% salary reduction either by reducing hours or by taking lower band job.

There are lots of very senior people in their 60s happily working away (some part time) earning very good salaries who have no intention to retire anytime soon. The difficulty is that we can only support so many people at that grade so there is little room to promote younger people so the younger people are leaving 🤷‍♀️

This is an issue in many industries. Career paths didn't adjust for longer life spans early enough, so you have boomers who reached senior positions comparatively early (a throwback to generations before them with shorter lives) and have then sat in those (expensive) roles for 25 years. As they are also a very large cohort it leaves the generation following them really screwed over as they are essentially blocked from progress, and it continues through the chain.

I've just gone at 55. Started 1987. Had intended to work longer (60 at least), but decided to take the financial hit, having decided life is short and you don't know what's round the corner. My colleagues and friends were shocked, but my family (nurses) are delighted for me.

It's not ageist to ask someone in the NHS about their retirement plans at 60, because if they are in the 1995 pension they almost certainly should have retirement plans (which doesn't have to mean stopping work - they can do partial retirement or retire and return and carry on working). If they don't, they risk losing a significant amount of money - and a lot of people don't know this. So the more people who are asked, and alerted to the risk, the better.

The older senior people on average came into their roles much younger than our current crop of staff so have had many years earning at the highest level we really offer. We can't demote them or pay them less due to age as quite a part from anything else it would be morally wrong but I can also see that many of them no longer really care and lack the drive some of our up coming staff have who may now do a better job but don't have the opportunity to have their turn.

@bbgtrf you've articulated it much better than me.

Who would you get advice from?

I had 1995 pension and then was moved to the newer scheme, not sure why I was moved as I was in the same job. I remember getting a letter about a different scheme asking me to choose which I likely ignored. I was 29 ish and didn't have a clue about pensions.

Now I only work 6 hours per week contract in nhs +bank. I am full time somewhere else.

I am now worried this will affect my final salary pension and need to get advice on it.

NHS pensions w were not able to advise.

Don't be ridiculous. This wasn't an interview with management, this was just "chat", with people you happen to be working with.
Bit like saying "Did you see the match last night?"
or
If someone is thinking of buying a new car - "What do you drive?"
or
"What did you get up to at the weekend?"
or
If you have dc and are trying to decide which school to apply for - "Where did your dc go?"
or
"You had your bathroom done last year didn't you? Would you recommend the people that did it for you?"

You know, general conversation with people you spend a fair bit of time with.

@Sunshineandrainbow you need to find out which schemes you are in, as a matter of priority. The letter was probably about the voluntary move from 1995 to 2008 - they have very different terms and conditions, and if you stayed in the 1995 and haven't taken it at 60 you are losing money.

The 2015 move was compulsory for everyone, nothing to do with changes of job.

Once you've checked what membership you have, join the NHS Pensions members advice group or the Pen-Gage public sector pensions advice group on Facebook. Read the files and FAQs, and then post any remaining questions and they will explain it all for you. PenGage can also provide actual paid-for professional advice if you need it.

When I was working we had a HCA who was nearly 80 , she was absolutely useless at the job as she was so infirm herself so basically just sat and talked to the patients . She did 3 shifts a week , so that was 3 shifts when everyone else was picking up the slack but she was good friends with the ward sister who wouldn’t make her leave .

I'm 45. I've done 25 years this year and I don't get to retire until 67. It's soul destroying to think even our own colleagues apparently think we can just waltz off into the sunset at 60.

Did you switch to the 2008, @FarmGirl78? If so, you're right it's not 60 - but you can get a good chunk at 65, rather than waiting to 67 or 68.

Nope. I didn't switch to 2008, but I got the forced switch to the 2015. I've read about the McCloud remedy, which I'm assuming will be to my advantage to keep in the 1995 bit (if I've understood correctly) but it narks me off that Pensions will only do the calculation to tell you the difference at the point of retirement. How do we know if we can afford to retire without knowing the amounts? 🤷🏻‍♀️ Typical NHS, clear as mud!!

My pension age is 68 but I'm paying monthly ERRBO contributions to retire at 65 instead. I wouldn't mind, but that calculation was borderline when I signed up, and they've just upped the amount. I've recently been off long term sick, and they didn't reduce the ERRBO proportionally because "its a contract you agreed on calculated as part of your contracted hours, if you're on half pay it doesn't change your contracted salary".....yet they can put my contributions up when they fancy it despite it being an agreed contract? 😡

@Floralnomad I remember an article in Nursing Times, years ago, celebrating a nurse who was 77 and still working. And another one in America who was 80. I wonder how useful they actually were, and how much other people were picking up the slack.

Eh? I’m 60 this year and I’ve just started a brand new career!!!

No one can be made to retire at any age. There are certain roles where fitness to practice comes into play - the police, for example, have a physical fitness test but forcing someone to retire because of their age is discrimination and covered by the Equality Act.

@Toddlerteaplease

There’s an ED nurse at St Thomas’ who must be in her eighties. She didn’t so much return to nursing as have to completely retrain^ - & it seems she works in a slightly grey area, somewhere between HCA & nurse, in terms of tasks assigned. Her name badge is “Nurse Surname” rather than her given name; & she still wears the belt [buckle, anyway, the elastic may have been changed after this much time] her parents got her when she qualified. She’s very sprightly & with it & clearly loves her job - & it’s Majors I’ve seen her in, so it’s some pace - but I’m pretty sure other nurses have to cover a certain amount of stuff.

I’m more used to elderly doctors - who of course might have retired but still be working. Which sounds very wrong. Prof Grahame at UCLH was a good example of that - I think he’s finally retired from private practice now too. Fond memories of him being perplexed by a digital camera…

^I suspect after being widowed, but obviously haven’t been so crass as to ask

i'm in canada and took my retirement at 57 from nursing. 57 is the age at which i could access my unreduced pension.
almost daily; pay, pay scale, hours until the next pay increase, sick time vacation time and over time pay were discussed.
three times a year a pension seminar was offered which you could attend as many times as you wish and at any time.

so asking a colleague about their retirement plans was very common and part of the workplace culture which was hugely beneficial as there is a lot of information to learn about the pension plan and benefits.

I don't know any nurses that can pick up and retire before the state pension age. I would be pretty pissed off if you brought up the assumption of retirement without it being a conversation I instigated, and rude.

Absolutely, I’m in my 40s to and totally outdated assumption that we get to retire in the NHS any earlier then anyone else. I might possibly get to take a small part of my pension at 65 under the Mc cloud remedy but (as started first post qualifying job more than 13 years ago) but the package on offer is nothing compared to what it used to be 30+ years ago. I wouldn’t have found the OPs question rude at all but do find the assumption infuriating, do people also now realise nurses, paramedics etc now get saddled with 50k worth or debt just to qualify too? So much has changed over the last 20-30 years

My husband will be retiring at 65 from his NHS job.

He will be taking early retirement.

I'm going at 55 years as lucky enough to have special class status. Two years to go.

Same as my DH.
He’d retired pre Covid having sold his business.
By 2022 he was climbing the walls so applied for a few jobs that used his previous experience.
He’s 62 now, been in his new job 2 years and loves it.

if you have worked there pre 1995 yes you can retire from nhs at 60,
many people retire and return

i dont think its a rude question.