Autistic Traits in a Neurotypical Person.

[Proa]

I was posting on another thread about autism and was told categorically that a neurotypical person cannot have traits of autism. My question is, why? It is accepted that autism is a spectrum and many have spiky profiles, so why would it not be true that some neurotypical people would possess similar spiky profiles, some being in line with autistic traits, yet not meet the threshold for an autism diagnosis.

Autism assessments are somewhat subjective (questionnaires, interviews etc) so surely there would be some people who would be on the cusp of diagnosis or who have traits but those traits do not impact their lives severely enough to be diagnosable?

In order to be diagnosed with autism, there are three categories (see photo) that the person must possess, and these criteria must ‘impair daily functioning’. Is it no possible that an otherwise neurotypical person could fit into 1 or 2 categories, thus being on the ‘cusp’ or have traits, yet not be diagnosed with autism as they don’t have the triad of impairments?

Is it not also possible that a neurotypical parent of a neurodiverse child could have ‘traits’, but these traits come out more obviously or strongly in the child, thus leading to an autism diagnosis?

I write this as a parent of an autistic and ADHD child. I have ‘traits’ of neurodiversity, which both myself and others can identify in me, yet I do not believe I reach the threshold to be diagnosed autistic and the traits I have certainly do not impair my everyday life. Many of the traits I possess I can see in my child, but his symptoms are amplified and more pronounced, to the point he needs support (I do not).

I just don’t understand why it’s out of the realm of possibility that someone could have strong ‘traits’ or symptoms of autism, yet not reach the threshold for diagnosis.

AIBU?

And I absolutely have depressive traits/tendencies. I have to work at not spiralling into depression.

The fact I haven’t been hospitalised or had ECT doesn’t mean I can’t say I have depressive tendencies.

Perhaps it would help if we stopped policing other people’s language.

Totally agree with you and find this fascinating.

My DCs are mainly undiagnosed but they both have a lot of traits, I’d say DS’s showed at a young age - he ‘grew out’ of a lot of the behaviours but has suffered from anxiety since childhood and is diagnosed with OCD as a young adult. He thinks he could be autistic but is not sure if he wants to go down that diagnosis route. He’s very intelligent and self-aware though.

DD has a ‘working diagnosis’ of adhd and was screened as dyslexic. Would identify as ND, but is an expert masker. Not really shown traits from a young age unless you count being v shy/awkward. Has never been great socially but is better now as has found others like her and is doing something she likes at uni/part-time work.

For myself I have def got traits -
socially I’m quite good (have a lot of friends but the close ones are all a certain type of person themselves!). I do find social niceties a pain esp at work / I am blunt and to the point by nature but know I need to keep it in check (my manager is like this too - she can annoy people with it but not me cos I understand!).
I am also v anxious about time and timekeeping (mine and others)
Hate some noises esp eating ones - def got a touch of misiphonia- have always been like this.
very rejection sensitive

I spoke to dd about this when she was telling me her issues I was saying, yes but that’s how I think too. She said, mum that’s not normal 😆

But I have been around a lot of autistic people and I still find it hard to see DCs in that category because they don’t quite fit there either, nor do they fit in NT so I would say they’d be in the borderline for diagnosis. They both get DSA at uni so their needs are being met and that’s what’s important really.

That’s a proper term used in the autism ‘world’

We've just had DD (11) finally diagnosed as ASC and ADHD. Although I have seen traits since a baby, I didn't think she would meet the impairment part to get a diagnosis. Even the school SENCO didn't think she would get a diagnosis- as she doesn't particularly mask at school, just glides under the radar. She isnt super sensitive or seeking on a sensory profile.

We first had the referral for ADHD and they said she didn't meet the threshold but when we went back for ASC they said they would diagnose as ASC and ADHD. She didn't have an educational psychologist visit her and was just on the forms the neurobehaviour team sent!

Going to your original post - I think we all have our own sensory profiles and preferences that is normal, and traits which could be deemed as 'autistic' and I think a lot of grown ups are probably undiagnosed autistic, however its the impact these traits have on the person which impacts the diagnosis or there struggle to cope in a 'NT world' . However neurodivergent was meant to be like biodiversity and highlight the natural differences in people.

To the PP who said issues with socialising from a young age is an indicator - that would be DD to a tee!

Of course you can have autistic traits and not be autistic.

Thats why it can be so difficult to diagnose, especially in girls who typically mask them.

I have worked with autistic or potentially autistic people and when they first come we do a mini diagnostic test.

I am not qualified to give an actual diagnosis but the questions are the same as a professional asks and then if they get a high score, they go on to have a proper assessment.

All of the staff have done one and every single staff member (and learner) gets at least one.

There is no such thing as normal or fitting into a box and this is true with ND people but also NT people.

But what if the traits are really pronounced, but there aren’t enough?

I think you're confusing having a trait at any level to mean if that trait exists within the nd spectrum then it means prehaps everyone with the trait is on the spectrum. but you have many similar symptoms or traits in any illnesses thay occur that also occur in health ppl and there is no medical illness and nor would you be considered on the spectrum of that illness. For example you can have anti bodies that relate to a specific auto immune illness but you do not have that illness and you are not on the spectrum for it either. You can have similar traits in anything but if it doesn't effect your brain function then it does not put you on the spectrum and it's dangerous to even suggest this. Ppl have gone pass the point of raising awareness which is so important to the other end of mis information.

I remember posting on here about after an assessment by an educational psychologist as we were leaving I asked " So definitely not autistic then?" and she answered "well if he is he is so high functioning it doesn't matter". ANd I was told I was lying or the woman was an idiot. But it was the truth. He had so many "autistic traits " as a child. Didn't talk till he was 4yo. Extremely limited diet. Couldn't follow a point etc etc. His assessment was done when he was 7yo. He is still a tad quirky ( mostly shown by his sense of humour) , but excelling at school, very empathetic and has a lot of friends. I'm not an expert but it seems to me that lumping all autism into a "spectrum" has not really done anyone any favours. If I'd taken him for assessment at 3yo he would have been diagnosed as autistic I'm pretty sure. Thus taking funding and help from a child who really needed it. He was just a classic late-bloomer. People seem to have forgotten they exist. They do. I have one right here. Edited for spelling

That's really interesting. I have a late bloomer too. I am trying to progress an assessment because other parents with high functioning children with autism have said it really helps them understand why they are the way they are and it has helped with extra support such as time in exams at university. I think he will be perfectly able to live away from home, get a job, etc. If it wasn't for the feedback from other parents I probably wouldn't be trying to get an assessment.

I'm NT and my DS has low functioning autism (he's an adult now). He needs support 24/7 and 2:1 care in the community.

I've often wondered about myself due to his diagnosis.

I've been a hair twiddler since a young child (pull it out, rub it together in palm of my hands and then open hair out and pull through teeth). I do it mostly in times of stress but when I'm calm too. Is it a stim, who knows?

I have anxiety (on meds for 20 plus years). As I've got older I have more social anxiety too but not sure it could be perimenopause related.

I'm a linguist and musician- I like rules, structure.

I don't deal with surprises or changes brilliantly.

as an autistic adult I 100% agree with this. if I get out of breath while running it isn’t an “asthmatic trait.” if you aren’t autistic, they aren’t autistic traits, they’re just traits

Then I would flag them up for an assessment just in case.

Some of them pretend to be ‘higher functioning’ than they are because they don’t want to be seen as different, so they’ll say what they think is the right answer.

And some will think they have traits that they don’t - do you find social situations difficult or struggle to make eye contact - we all do sometimes but we don’t think about it but when asked this question many people will say yes.

So the questionnaire is always used as just a guide to try and get help to those that need it but we try and use our own judgement too.

"Policing other people's language" if so many people now didn't try and use langauge that doesn't actually apply to them, there would be no need for policing it. So many people WANT to be seen as different, its becoming truly pathetic and is mocking those with the real conditions you seem to want to have!

I dont really think autism is a collection of traits anyway.

I think if someone has an area of difficulty but hasnt met the threshold for autism it's more useful for them to say what their difficulty is than say I have some autistic traits.

So they could say I struggle with social communication so need you to be direct.

I have sensory processing issues so will need a quieter environment to meet up.

I get anxious about change can you talk me through it.

We shouldn't have a limit on compassion or little adjustments.

Hi OP,

I work in an assessment team for both ASD and ADHD. I often see youngsters who don’t quite meet the threshold for diagnosis. This may be because the specific things we are looking at are not pervasive or having a massive impact on life and functioning (so wouldn’t meet threshold in that way) or alternatively there may be marked differences in some areas (like a sensory profile) but no evidence of anything falling outside of what we might expect to see in other areas which would then mean the young person wouldn’t fall in line with the threshold as we need to see a specific pattern differences across a number of different areas.

My understanding around the move towards a spectrum is that every human is on a spectrum and falls somewhere, but this would only meet a diagnostic threshold if the differences were marked, formed a pattern across a few key areas and had a substantial impact on the person. So theoretically, yes, it’s my view that everyone should display ‘traits’ in one way or another. However, I’m not sure I would describe those as ASD traits, just general differences between people.

People have quite different views on the use of labels, for some ‘neurotypical’ people describing themselves as having ASD traits might be considered offensive or minimising to the autistic community. Similarly, for some people separating their child outside of the realm of ‘normal’ and labelling them as having ASD can be extremely stigmatising and an unhelpful narrative. We usually think carefullly with families about this before and after any assessment.

A spiky profile is a common term of term used when identifying Dyslexia and other Neurdiversities.

If you finish things you start you likely don't have ADHD. You can be very motivated to start things or be obsessed with them for a while, but if you're ADHD you likely don't really finish them. Also, you probably don't care your house is a mess.

If you're always focused on/obsessed about the same things and finish them or stick with them to the logical conclusion, or finish and repeat at some point, you're probably more autism leaning.

This is a really interesting thread to me because I've often thought I have very, very mild versions of some autism traits.

I'm extremely sensitive to sound (but I don't avoid going to loud places, and certain sounds are far more triggering to me than others, e.g. bagpipes). But, I don't wear headphones or earplugs or anything.

I like logic and structure and I don't always get people's jokes because my first instinct is to take them literally.

While I like order and dislike mess, and find it difficult to concentrate if my surroundings aren't in order, I'm not hyper obsessive about it (I have a friend whose shoes always have to go in their exact shoebox, in a certain order of boxes, when he takes them off).

I understand people's emotions in general (unless they're massively going out of their way to fake or hide them), people think of me as "normally" sociable.

Once I'm doing something I get very angry and frustrated if someone distracts me or tries to pull me away from doing it.

I prefer certain feels of fabrics over others and won't wear certain ones, but I don't have to buy exact specific things. I also don't get mad if the packaging changes or recipe changes for a product, or it's discontinued. Again, thinking about my friend who had to have the same thing for his work lunch every day, and a particular type of bread and a particular type of ham so he had exactly enough slices of each for a consistent 5 day week. He wouldn't buy ham if there were "too many" slices, whereas I'd just leave a slice, have an extra slice, or offer someone the slice.

I guess this is why it's considered a spectrum.

Autism clinic said on the spectrum means you have diagnosed autism. Neurotypical people are not anywhere on the spectrum.

Like some others up-thread, I also work in autism research and (a long time ago) was trained to do ADOS etc.

I think some people want there to be a clear cut, categorical distinction between 'autism' and 'not autism'. But the real world is messier than that. Diagnoses can be wrong, different specialists can disagree, people can grow and change so a child who would be diagnosed at one age might not be later.

And similarly, people who do not have a formal diagnosis of autism can show some features or traits that are similar to autism. Look up the dozens of research papers on 'broader autism phenotype' or 'autistic traits' on google Scholar etc.

Maybe one day there will be a clear way to diagnose and understand autism, but at the moment, things are still messy.

We're not all on the spectrum, although this is something I also believed until both me and my daughter were informally diagnosed. We're both currently waiting for a formal diagnosis assessment.

Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a developmental disability caused by differences in the brain. You are born with ASD, so whether you're diagnosed early or late in life, the key point here is having always had ASD not just "developing" symptoms later.

Neurotypical brains are different to neurodivergent brains, so you're either autistic or not. You can't be a "little bit" autistic. Neurotypical brains are different to neurodivergent brains. The spectrum that is so often spoken about refers to the neurodivergent spectrum that neurodivergent people are on. People misunderstand this as a linear continuum ranging from mild autism to severe autism. The spectrum isn't linear, but is instead a collection of a variety of traits, that each autistic person has uniquely. Which explains why you can get a very wide range of symptoms from being totally non verbal to being a savant, with everything in between. No two autistics are the same.

The spectrum doesn't refer to all humans, it refers to all neurodivergent people. Yes, NT people can also experience lots of the listed autistic symptoms, but it doesn't automatically mean you're neurodivergent. For example, lots of people have anxiety, doesn't mean you're autistic. 85% of autistic people are said to suffer from social anxiety.

There is also a significant genetic link, with autism often running in families. Numerous studies, including twin studies and family studies, have estimated the heritability of autism to be around 80 to 90%, indicating that genetic factors play a substantial role. Heritability estimates do not imply that autism is solely determined by genetics, as environmental factors also contribute to the development of the disorder.

Oh and please don't assume if someone is sociable, makes friends, has children, has a romantic relationship that they can't be autistic. Masking in females is a huge thing and very very misunderstood!

I hope we get to a point where we can brain scan and know for sure who is and who isn’t.

This research is interesting.. I asked AI to explain it like I’m 12 to simplify it:

They took brain samples from 49 people who had autism and 54 people who didn't. They compared these samples to see how the genes were acting differently in people with autism.
They found that in every part of the brain they looked at, there were differences in the levels of RNA, but the biggest differences were in two areas:

1. Visual cortex: This part of the brain helps us see and process what we're looking at.
2. Parietal cortex: This part helps us feel things like touch, pain, and temperature.

These differences might help explain why people with autism often have very sensitive senses, like being more sensitive to light or touch. The scientists also discovered that the changes in gene activity they saw are probably causing autism, rather than happening because of it. This means these gene changes might be a big part of why autism happens. Next, the scientists want to figure out if they can create treatments by fixing these gene changes. They might use special computer programs to help with this. They also plan to use organoids, which are tiny, simplified versions of organs grown in a lab, to study these changes more closely and understand them better.

Brain changes in autism are far more sweeping than previously known

You're either autistic or you're not. OP if you have two ND kids and you have 'traits' you are likely ND yourself and mask well. Been there done that, got my ADHD medicated and controlled then, hello, autism that was silently lurking underneath!

One condition can do a pretty good job of obscuring the other - we can appear 'normalish' meanwhile inside it's a battle of two extremes!

I think “you’re either Autistic or you’re not” is unusable until we get those scans!

Some people have no idea they are ND and would be offended at the idea. But everyone around them can see it clearly.

Some people think they are but the GP doesn’t agree because their experience of Autism is with boys, or people that have high support needs, and they walked in, spoke for themselves and acted like a normal person (because that’s what you do in public), so that’s that for them.

I’ve read stories where some get diagnosed fairly quickly and easily, some people go through multiple processes and no-one agrees on a diagnoses.

There are cases where people have a breakdown and are diagnosed with a mental illness, then later re-diagnosed with Autism.

There are people that know they’re different and will have no idea about ND, so will end up in another area of labels like “INFP”, highly sensitive person (HSP), a “lone wolf”, a creative, a hermit.. etc.