Autistic Traits in a Neurotypical Person.

[Proa]

I was posting on another thread about autism and was told categorically that a neurotypical person cannot have traits of autism. My question is, why? It is accepted that autism is a spectrum and many have spiky profiles, so why would it not be true that some neurotypical people would possess similar spiky profiles, some being in line with autistic traits, yet not meet the threshold for an autism diagnosis.

Autism assessments are somewhat subjective (questionnaires, interviews etc) so surely there would be some people who would be on the cusp of diagnosis or who have traits but those traits do not impact their lives severely enough to be diagnosable?

In order to be diagnosed with autism, there are three categories (see photo) that the person must possess, and these criteria must ‘impair daily functioning’. Is it no possible that an otherwise neurotypical person could fit into 1 or 2 categories, thus being on the ‘cusp’ or have traits, yet not be diagnosed with autism as they don’t have the triad of impairments?

Is it not also possible that a neurotypical parent of a neurodiverse child could have ‘traits’, but these traits come out more obviously or strongly in the child, thus leading to an autism diagnosis?

I write this as a parent of an autistic and ADHD child. I have ‘traits’ of neurodiversity, which both myself and others can identify in me, yet I do not believe I reach the threshold to be diagnosed autistic and the traits I have certainly do not impair my everyday life. Many of the traits I possess I can see in my child, but his symptoms are amplified and more pronounced, to the point he needs support (I do not).

I just don’t understand why it’s out of the realm of possibility that someone could have strong ‘traits’ or symptoms of autism, yet not reach the threshold for diagnosis.

AIBU?

I've wondered this about my ds. He has sensory processing issues (food textures, loud noises, crowds) and dyspraxia (poor handwriting, poor hand eye co-ordination). He is 15. I have put him forward for a neurological assessment mainly to help him when/if he gets to university. But he doesn't have repetitive behaviours, has a very happy time in his drama group and is doing very well at school. He has friends at school but doesn't want to see them out of school. I think he probably just about meets the threshold for a diagnosis and discussing it with people who are on the spectrum, they say they were relieved to have a diagnosis so we're going to try to get an assessment and see what they say.

They do ADOS without parents though. Interested as to your role as normally it’s just assessors in there x2. Are you an assessor? How do they end having a multitude of assessments? The waiting list for autism diagnosis is very long, specific people do it. You’d be lucky to get one assessment, not a multitude.🤔

That is absolutely nonsense. I have tonnes of ASD in my family background as have a lot of others I know. I have traits but I don’t have ASD though. I know other people similar to me.

I know what you mean.

My son (27) is being assessed for this now. He is highly functioning, extremely clever, holds down a good job etc, but his therapist thinks he may show some traits. For eg. he get's overly invested in things, sucking up an insane amount of knowledge, and then will tell you all of this stuff, with facts and figures, even if it's of no interest to the normal person.

I myself have certain OCD traits, and have done since a child. I hide them all. Only my DH and DC are aware.

One could argue that many of us have some autistic traits, that is human nature we are all so different. What I struggle with is the constant need to put a label on everything where it is not warranted.

Don't know why your friend said OCD, that sounds like an ADHD hyper focus.

Autistic traits are human traits and we are all human we will share traits.

As well as being "neurospicy". 🤮 Yeah it's so quirky and fun struggling to live with my partner, leave the house, be in the house, exist in my body whenever it changes or feels something, interact with any human, overthink every interaction for months or years, not feel safe anywhere, be dependent on other people for money to live, feel suicidal regularly, etc.

I guess people who need wheelchairs are just limb-spicy.

YANBU

I saw a thread on here about parents talking about their kids’ autistic traits the other day. Many of them were traits of NT kids as well - like being scared of hand dryers and watching the same tv show over again.

DD has just gone through a full ASD assessment. Didn’t meet criteria for diagnosis but does have some ASD traits. It’s not triad of impairments for diagnosis anymore, it’s the DSM 5: https://www.autismspeaks.org/autism-diagnostic-criteria-dsm-5

Son of a friend has “adhd with autistic traits” diagnosis

Anyone can have asd traits but the issue is when people start saying 'oh I'm a bit autistic me I have to put my clothes on in a certain order' whilst successfully leading their life. It minimises how autistic people experience life and the challenges and discrimination they face .

Yes there may be a small handful of people who are impacted who for whatever reason didn't meet the threshold: but the people who typically say stuff like that are usually ignorant to what asd is

I definitely wouldn’t get an autism diagnosis, neither would DH, but I see traits in us both. Some are very useful.

There is a school of thought that the genes that result in autism have remained in the gene pool because autistic traits can be very beneficial to individuals and society, when at a level or in combinations where they are not (too) disabling.

The issue is people using 'autistic traits' to minimise the experience of being autistic.

Would you feel the need to say you or your child had 'depressive traits' because sometimes you felt a bit pessimistic?

No I wouldn’t do that but with two autistic children and a third with traits I’m pretty sure they did not lick their personality traits off the pavement. Both DH and I have plenty of ASD traits and lots of ASD up the way in our families hence why we have ND children.

@Baaliali I'm sure you'd be more sensitive then, but unfortunately your children might end up dealing with situations like I get all the time - like my work colleague 'empathising' with me by telling me that she's a bit autistic because she doesn't like hotdesking. Or continually talking about how we're 'all a bit on the spectrum '

I know she means well but it doesn't help!
(And yes I have tried politely challenging it but she doesn't get it and it comes from a good place so I try to let it go)

I think some people would say they are prone to low moods. The terminology is different, granted, but I think it is as much terminology as anything. I think with autism it is also so pervasive across many, many areas of life, whereas depression, say, is more focused which could why the language used is different. Yes it can severely affect your whole life, but the root of the difficulty is in one particular area. With autism there are specific things across many, many areas of functioning, so I think it is possible for people to see that they have similarities in those specific areas.

I say this as a parent to an autistic child. I think it would be slightly odd if I wasn’t similar to him in many ways. We are very closely related, after all. He is wonderful but also has real difficulties. The traits I have that are similar to his are not to a degree that cause me significant issues let along anything like the difficulties he faces, and is some cases they are actually positive, yet they are definitely there.

I believe I have some autistic traits in the way I interact (or don't interact) with other people, and a few times in my life others have noticed and suggested this too. But I actively dislike routine and don't have any obsessive interests that I can think of, so I would never get a diagnosis of autism. If my tendency to not get social interactions quite "right" is not an autistic trait, then I don't quite know how else it could be described. My brother used to call me "socially inept" but that's not a very technical term!

PS: I never describe myself to others as having autistic traits and am absolutely not trying to get some kind of special treatment or hijack autistic people's experience. I'm just trying to make sense of my personality in my own mind. I've muddled through life reasonably well for nearly 60 years. But I don't think of myself as being quite like most other people.

@moonshinepoursthroughmywindow My son doesn’t like routine (that is this ADHD) and also doesn’t have obsessive interests.

He struggles with socialising for sure. But his assessment specifically mentions that he does not have obsessions or repetitions, he is hyperactive (a sensory difference). The hyperactivity combined with social deficit is why he was diagnosed with ASD. He doesn’t have many of the stereotypical traits.

When people empathise with me in similar ways, just for being a parent of an autistic child, it annoys me too. I think unless you are an autistic person or, to a lesser degree, been very close to an autistic person, you wouldn’t really have a clue what it is like. To people removed from it they probably do see their experience as similar, even if it isn’t. But people always try to form connections with others through shared experience. Whilst in this case it is frustrating at least people are trying to connect. I don’t know what the answer is to help people appreciate the depths of the autistic experience though.

Whoever told you it's not possible is wrong. It's called Broad Autistic Phenotype and refers to people who have traits of autism but don't meet the threshold for diagnosis.

Of course people in the general population can have autistic traits. You can have traits of a condition without having it. Perhaps they misunderstood your post or you theirs. Were they perhaps telling you that you can’t be on the autistic spectrum if you aren’t autistic?

I think when people meet my son they don’t try to pretend they are like him because of the degree his ASD is so obviously disabling that they don’t want to identify themselves with it. Those with the emotional maturity of an amoeba and the subtlety of a tonne of bricks tend to go straight towards pity 🙄.

But definitely when people haven’t met him or they meet my DD who is more what would have been Aspie in the past then we are all a bit of the spectrum can come out from those types. It’s all just ignorance and emotional development deficits in them.

I think it’s often the degree ie whether the fear of hand driers continues for years and years rather than just the preschool years, or whether it stops you visiting a particular building at all rather than just using the toilets, that is the key thing, and also whether it occurs with many, many similar things or just that specific thing.

Before my DS has a diagnosis (which he got at 4yrs) I can remember having discussions with other parents about the things he did. Many of them would tell me their children did what I’d just described. Many thought he couldn’t possibly be autistic. The things he was doing are just human behaviours, after all. It is the reason he does them and the extent to which he does them which is key. (His autism affects him enough that he is in a special school and only accesses extra-curricular activities for disabled children.)

They're only Autistic traits if you're Autistic. Otherwise they're just your personality traits. It's like saying I'm sad so I have depressive traits, no Im just sad. Or I like to organise so I have traits of OCD. No I just like to organise things. No one's a little bit OCD or a little bit Autistic, you either are or you aren't. So yes you may have some traits in common with someone who's Autistic or has anxiety or OCD but if you aren't Autistic or you don't have those MH issues, they're just your personality traits nothing else. Someone getting anxious sometimes is absolutely nothing at all like having an anxiety disorder like I do. Language is important and we shouldn't minimise people's struggles by making it sound like they're things lots of people have to deal with.

To be fair, as parents we are obliged to observe and consider our children’s behaviour in case they have support needs. It’s the job.

When those behaviours subside with age and experience children are considered NT.

When they persist to a problematic degree they become diagnosable with something.