Is this normal behaviour for a 4 year old?

[CastleGreySkull]

Currently at Butlins with my sister and her 4 year old daughter. Sister has been saying for the past 3 years that she thinks DN is autistic but I’ve never believed this. Whenever I’ve seen her she’s been chatty and very NT seeming. Sister said she was masking but I personally thought she was two young to mask. I’ve always told sister she was worrying over nothing … now I’m not so sure.

We arrived on Friday and as always DN was perfectly behaved on the whole journey here, appeared to love the accommodation, was very good in the supermarket when we went to stock up … again very NT seeming.

However since then, I’ve seen a completely different side to her. Shes covering her ears in shows and always wants to leave, she randomly runs off leaving sister chasing her through crowds etc, she won’t mix with the other kids, won’t entertain the characters/red coats etc …

The worst of it is in the arcade, the lights and noise seems to turn her loopy and she completely changes into a child I don’t even recognise … her ears completely stop working so you can be talking to her and she won’t even acknowledge you, she’s charging from one machine to the next thrashing on the buttons, jumping onto the £1 rides and kicking whoever tries to pull her out of them … I got £1 changed into 2p coins so she could go on the 2p machines … she randomly put a few coins in, won a few back and then got bored of that and ran off trying to force the coins into £1 slots etc, sister said she wouldn’t like 2p slots as she won’t see the point winning the same things that you’re putting in - but we used to love them at her age. We had to take the remaining coins off her in the end as she was getting so frustrated with not being able to put them into the rides sister said she’s likely to just chuck the lot of them into the air!! I can’t believe this is the same child!! She’s literally angelic whenever I see her normally, never nags for things, never tantrums, has never touched things she wasn’t supposed to … I’ve always said she’s literally the perfect child so this is mind blowing to me.

yesterday sister was starting to feel unwell so I took niece for a walk to let sis have a rest. All was going well until niece suddenly started crying, pointing at something and saying something I couldn’t understand. Long story short … she wanted a helium balloon. I took her into the shop and she immediately seemed to forget why we’d gone in and ran off looking at the toys. Next minute she’s completely rearranging items on a shelf by colour coordination. Sis has always said she does stuff like this but I never believed her 😞 I couldn’t distract her from it … ended up having to pick her up and take her out of the shop, she then starts crying about the balloon again.

Anyway other things that have come to light … niece will hold onto bowel movements until they’re literally coming out on their own accord - last night we had a situation where niece was in bathroom, poo all over her hands, the door, the toilet seat etc etc … sis still unwell so I said I’d deal with it but Christ what a mess!

The child does not tire either, she was up from 8am until almost midnight last night - she’s sharing a bed with sis and I could hear her still talking to herself at midnight.

They’re both still asleep now.

She’s still fascinated with Peppa Pig and will watch it on the laptop with her face almost touching the screen. If you talk to her during this time, she simply won’t hear you unless you touch her in some way and even then she’ll acknowledge that you’re there but won’t talk to you.

So, would you say this is all normal for an excited 4 year old or have I got it massively wrong in not supporting sister over her fears of autism?

feeling very guilty and shit right now.

Could it be excitement because she's away? What is she like at nursery/school?

She sounds well overstimulated. Does she watch much screens? Children that age who watch a lot of screens can engage with life like it’s a case of swipe for the next video. This sounds normal for a child with that experience. Are there issues and conflict at home? She sounds like she could do with an assessment by a child psychologist but I would not be in a hurry to label her as ND without dealing with whatever might have caused this disconnection.

Certainly she has some sensory processing issues going on which are more xtreme than a NT 4 year old. The other behaviours do have an ASC vibe about them and could point to a ND profile. Assessments from an autism specialist paed, an OT in sensory processing and also a speech and language therapist would benefit. How is the little girl coping in nursery?

Definitely sounds autistic to me.
I have two autistic children.

Why have you never believed your sister? It sounds like hard work for her. Maybe get off site & go for beach walk or something less lively?

I think she's overstimulated. Too much noise, too much to look at. I work in a nursery and we see this kind of behaviour daily. It does sound like she is on the Autism spectrum IMPO. Her nursery should have picked this up. If not, encourage her mum to speak to them about it. They can get referrals from outside agencies to help.

I’d say she is autistic, but your sister needs to get her assessed properly.

Could be, might not be. She's little, if your sister has concerns I would assume she's already spoken to GP or health visitor about them to look at getting her assessed in more detail.

I will say though that 2p machines didn't really get fun for my DC1 til she was around 5 and at 4 she definitely was hyper in arcades and wanting to go on rides and didn't understand money. She's nearly 6 and still doesn't understand money obviously so will sometimes still have a tantrum over not being bought something from a shop or going on a ride, that sounds normal behaviour to me for a 4yo.

For noise sensitivity has she tried ear defenders? My DC1 was wearing hers regularly at age 4 for noise sensitivity, now touching 6 she almost never needs them, she's been growing out of it.

My DC still also liked Peppa Pig at 4 and both of my kids at 6 and 2 are very difficult to get their attention if they're engrossed in watching a tv show, that also sounds normal to me.

The poo issue is also very common unfortunately, your sister can look at the Eric website, witholding stool is a very common issue. My NT cousin had problems with this until he was about 9 or 10. Health visitor/GP/school nurse also may be able to advise. The key is usually ensuring their is no physiological constipation first and foremost and then after that trying all the behavioural strategies.

I would say she sounds like she's over stimulated. Get her out of Butlins and go to the beach or the park. What Butlins are you at? Bognor had a lovely park a few minutes walk away and the beach is right there. Skegness has a lovely sand beach and their also lots of parks nearby. Her away from all the lights and noise it will help.

I would say now you have seen the behaviour just apologize and ask her how you can support.

It isn't unusual we watched family members criticise a family member parenting for years. Always commenting on how well behaved they were with them!

Eventually they saw it. Try give your sister some respite, she probably would welcome an ally. If there is a quieter Tim in the pool that may work but unsure what the set up is.

I couldn't say whether she's autistic or not as assessment isn't within my remit but early identification of development issues is part of what I do for a living and, with the behaviour you've described, I'd recommend your sister seeks a referral for assessment. Your niece is showing issues with sensory processing, social skills, communication, repetitive behaviours and executive function. This all warrants further investigation.

There is an Argos in Skegness town centre, it's near the train station, and it stocks children's ear defenders. Go buy a pair, they're around £10-£12 a pair and they'll help your niece deal with some of the problems she has around noise.

Also you need to apologise to your sister for dismissing her worries before now.

Ok so this morning we had the mother of all meltdowns. We took her to a soft play session - huge mistake. She curled up in a corner and wouldn’t move. We thought maybe we should just take her out but when we tried that the screaming started and yes, now I believe she is ND. I’ve never seen anything like it. I’ve apologised to my sister for not supporting her over the past few years, when neice is always so perfectly behaved when I see her it’s hard to believe there could be anything wrong but now I’ve seen it. We’re back at challet now, DN has been non verbal since the meltdown (something else I’ve never seen her do) and now she’s happily playing with her figures.

im taking her to the beach this afternoon, letting sis have a nap, netflix, whatever she wants to do. We’re decided Butlins might not be the best choice for next year 😂

Also I didn’t know this but DN is already on the waiting list for autism assessment, sis just didn’t bother telling me as I never believed her anyway 😞 I feel terrible. Shes been brilliant about it bless her but at least now I recognise she needs more support/respite

Honestly, go get some ear defenders as they will help with some of the overstimulation.

In Skegness there is an aquarium, my autistic DC enjoys going there as they find watching the yanks very soothing. There is also a seal sanctuary with a butterfly house that they like. Both of these places get busy but aren't as bright and flashy as Butlins. Could you sign up for some of the quieter, more focused activities like arts and crafts, t-shirt printing, balance bikes, pottery painting, etc?

If you don't mind an early start, going for a walk around the site at around 6/7am is good for spotting rabbits, ducks and foxes. There is even a badger that lives somewhere near the silver accommodation although he's mostly out late at night.

I'd avoid swimming as it's a nightmare at the moment due to most of the pool being closed off, gets very crowded but there are some water fountains beside the swimming pool that are fun to play in and less crowded.