Pronatalism - here pigeons, have a cat.....

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/article/2024/may/25/american-pronatalists-malcolm-and-simone-collins

I've seen a few things about this "culture" over the last couple of years, but kept forgetting what they called it for some reason.

This article is interesting. I tend to avoid judgement on how people live their lives - I mean, nobody gets everything right all the time and life is a continual learning curve.

However - my reservations about this are that it is backed by some of the people with alot of money, alot of power and alot of influence.

And whether you dress it up as "polygenics" because "eugenics" is unpalatable to most, I can't help thinking it's another fast paced incoming "zeitgeist".

Interested in others thoughts.

It’s a good thing. Tbh having a bunch of kids when many are choosing not to is a good strategy.

Makes me wish I had started earlier lol.

Setting aside any comment on the movement generally, those two are both utterly repellent.

I struggle to see the logic in banging on about it should be easier for people to have children then be against maternity leave.

Well the west does need more dc, countries without many young people aren’t going to be progressive or innovative. The UK birth rate has fallen much faster than expected and it’s one reason we are having economic issues. It’s also why immigration will keep happening.

I think Elon is awful but I am actually more worried about the landscape for me in 20/30 yrs vs global warming.

I think it is based on his wife’s personal preferences, it says she didn’t want maternity leave and went straight back to work (she is literally autistic so cannot understand why other women might lol).

They did want some sort of protection for flexible childcare but the article gave few details on what they mean by it.

In general I think what bothers me most is the wildly contradictory views that abound at the moment.

"The world's overpopulated - have fewer or no childen"

"The birthrate is falling - have more children"

Which then inevitably turns to who should be having those children and whether the "quality" of those children should be the first consideration followed by how "quality" is measured and achieved.

There's progress .... and then there's "progress".

On a personal note, I'm glad I'll never end up having small talk with this couple. I don't think it would end well.

Which then inevitably turns to who should be having those children and whether the "quality" of those children should be the first consideration followed by how "quality" is measured and achieved

I will bite. Why not do this? They genetically test and select the best quality embryos as they see it (iirc aren’t they selecting for intelligence and also no major diseases? Seems legit tbh)

I thought the throwaway sentence that the neighbours do all the childcare was very telling.

The couple are so proud of having so many kids, but neither of them actually seem to like children and the effort of looking after them goes to the nameless people next door.

Yeah but they allow that couple to live rent free in that house it seems?

It's all predicated on long term predictions: "We're going to have countries of old people starving to death."

Those sorts of predictions are commonplace and overwhelmingly wrong. We'd have been wiped out many times over by now if all the doom-mongers of the past had been right.

*In general I think what bothers me most is the wildly contradictory views that abound at the moment.

"The world's overpopulated - have fewer or no childen"

"The birthrate is falling - have more children"

it is contradictory but in the west birth rates are below replacement leave. The population can still grow as people are living longer.

In the UK we have more over 65s than under 15s which isn’t sustainable with our current economic model hence immigration

I did read the article but thanks nonetheless for the slightly patronising précis 👍

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/economic-consequences-uks-ageing-population

The couple seem a bit weird tbh

Adding details as not everyone is gonna read the article. Don’t take it personally 😊

I don't think we'll be wiped out but it is interesting to think about. When the tendency is towards smaller and smaller families, those cultures who can still motivate people to have larger broods will be the ones that shape culture and politics in the future.

I lean towards antinatalism myself. I've mentioned in another thread that humans only destroy Earth, unlike other species who are constantly contributing to its renewal. This is just my opinion though and have done my bit for voluntary extinction by not having DC. Plenty of people will disagree and that's fine, their choices are none of my business.

If it's about making it easier for people to have children then presumably there should be free unlimited state funded IVF for all who need it?

No I thought not.....

Actually, I think the couple in the article do advocate for progressive, technological solutions to support fertility, like IVF...I'm pretty sure I remember rightly that from a podcast I listened to, surrogacy too which had me sucking air between my teeth because I fundamentally disagree with that.

But I don't think they have any designs on it being free. But, being American, I don't suppose free healthcare falls on the radar for those with means, which I think is their primary audience.

Dear Lord, my judgy pants were pulled up to my chin reading that.
They're a pair of freaks, my sincere hope is that their kids change their names to John and Susan and get jobs as civil servants.

Almost everything about that couple and the way they are raising their children is unpleasant and off putting.

It's that he so callously whacked his toddler across the face in a restaurant for wobbling the table that got to me...

It is typical lower class behaviour in America tbh. The man clearly comes from such a background. Too bad for his children tbh but it’s not illegal there nor frowned down upon except by upper class white people.

Is she having children as experiment?

It does not look like she likes being a mother (zero maternity leave, chucking them for care when they are 18months...). But she is willing to have seven c sections to just have them for the sake of it?
Appaling cow.

If you read the article it says he came from a wealthy but abusive household.

I think there are more than enough people in the world if we all just spread out a bit…