Is this normal for young children?

[morphlerana]

I'm at the end of my tether.

My third child has been a completely different baby. He is honestly a dream.
My first two (now 6 and 3) were always intense high needs babies and toddlers.

From the moment I wake up my three year old screams all day and has done since around 18 months. Constant demands every 30 seconds. When the health visitor visited when my 6 month old was born, she put in a referral and he's been referred to a paediatrician because of how his behaviour was.

When the 6 year old comes home.
From 3.15-7.30 bedtime there is not more than 3 minutes (yes I timed because I start to dissociate) where they are not screaming at each other, or one of them. My friends don't even want to come round anymore with their little ones because it's just hell and I cannot blame them either.

It doesn't matter what I do in the day with them. As soon as we are inside the house it's hell. And I cannot physically be outside from 8am until 7pm.

I cannot even cook while the baby is napping because of them. It's actually chaotic. Every activity anything just hell breaks loose and by the time I've ran back and forth to stop them screaming wining their demands, the baby wakes up. So I've ended up with take outs most nights because it never ends. It sounds absolutely ridiculous but it's the truth

I feel like leaving with the baby and never coming back.

My husband is back at work but he did end up having to leave his previous job when dc3 came because I collapsed in exhaustion one day because the older two kept me up all night for weeks. So I couldn't even fit in any sort of sleeping because when the newborn slept, they would start.

My 3 week old baby wasn't keeping me awake at night it was them two!!

My mum says "oh it's normal" but I don't think it fucking is.

Does the 3 yo go to nursery? I had a very high maintenance ds... I feel your pain.

He starts in September morning sessions. He turned 3 last week and my dh said we can't afford to send him to a nursery at 2 when I'm at home anyway :(

No that’s not my experience of children no, how on earth did you end up adding a third?

Could be unmet sensory needs maybe?
might be worth trying things like a mini trampoline inside, yoga ball, weighted blankets/teddies ?

i have a child with asd/adhd who was very demanding when he was smaller and these sorts of things helped, as well as a really clear routine for what's happening (visual timetable type thing)
when your dh comes in from work, could you agree that he takes the older two out to the playground or something for an hour or so to give you a bit of quiet.
could also be he's over tired?

I became pregnant shortly before my 3 year old turned 2. It was manageable. Everybody told me it's just a stage of early terrible twos. My daughter went through the same it lasted around 6 months.
I did not expect this shit show.

I don't regret my third, he's a completely different baby, he's been amazing.

I tried the indoor trampoline and he ended up hurting himself.

He's broke his nose just running into the wall.
He just head smashes himself.

1-1 he's manageable as long as he has my constant attention but it's impossible. Even before my third came along. If i explained it's now time to cook lunch and attempted to get him to help it turned into a circus

I don’t know if this is helpful or not, but I have a 2.5 and 5 year old and can cook etc fine. They do fight but I can usually trust them whilst I shower or do chores etc. The oldest has always been harder work than the youngest, he’s only recently started to play independently and he definitely demands the most attention but not to the degree your two sound like they do.

Sorry OP that sounds really hard.

What is the 6yo like when they aren't with their siblings? Is it the 3yo instigating the fighting?

It doesn't sound normal, yes toddlers are hard work but what you have described sounds extreme. Can you talk to the HV, sometimes you can get free hours earlier if SEN is suspected (I don't know how often this happens but I know of a couple of people who have managed to get this).

What are your local soft plays like? One of ours offers a cheap deal for entry and dinner after school. Might work if after school/tea time is a particular stress point for you.

What do you do to fill your 3 year olds day? Are they getting enough physical and mental stimulation?

That does sound stressful OP and unusual, or on the very intense end of the ‘normal’ range. I’d definitely do nursery - DH may say you can’t afford it financially, but I don’t think you can afford NOT to do it mentally.

OP That sounds really hard for you. Do you still have a health visitor for the baby that you could discuss this with? She might be able to assess whether either / both of the older two have any SEN that could be addressed

Has he been assessed for autism? Or has anyone mentioned autism to you as a possible explanation?

Scrape whatever cash you have, go without things if you need to. Get back to work earlier and longer hours if needs be. Just get him there!

Can you find any other childcare help. Even if it’s nursery one day a week! I won’t say it’s SEN etc as honestly none of us can tell nor are medically qualified to any degree. All I can say is you have my sympathies and this sounds like hell. I’d be trying to find some more help if not for my sanity at least it might burn off some energy and give you less to manage. x

So we wake up around 7am - breakfast get ready (but he prefers to stay naked until we have to leave) my husbands home at this time as he had to change his hours because my dc2 won't do the school run without crying and i was sick of being "that mum"

Then i come home, make snack/another mini breakfast for him. Then we go out to either playground or beach (both as they are next to each other) come home, attempt to have lunch then baby will nap, we play in his bedroom, do some reading etc.
On Wednesdays and Fridays we go to the pool for alone time as dh has the baby so we can go in the afternoon before school pick up.

After school pick up. Come home give snacks. Then either inside/garden activities or to the park or karate. Come home, attempt to make dinner then it's bath and bed.

@fieldsofbutterflies my sibling had autism and i mentioned this.
My mum told me to "not think of autism just because my sibling has" and rolls her eyes.

But it's definitely been on my mind.
I asked my HV she said, the doctor at the child development team will be able to make a diagnosis if this is the case as she doesn't want to say anything

I'd speak to your health visitor op. It does sound extreme.

You may be able to access two year old funding if they suspect there's something more at play. Although perhaps if you could fund even one day a week for them at nursery it might help YOU, as well as mean they're being observed and assessed in another setting too which would be good for them as well in the long run. Sell it to dh as the money spent on takeaways could fund it! You could spend an hour of that day batch cooking or prepping evening meals for example.

The first year of my DD's life was the worst of mine. I had her autistic (but undiagnosed at the time), incredibly high needs 3yo brother and a near constant barrage of 'little chats' at nursery pickups, meetings about his SEN, illnesses he picked up from nursery and a husband who had completely checked out and turned to alcohol. I wore DD pretty much all day long because it was the only way I could be close to her and deal with her sibling.

Speak up for yourself right now, because you need help right now. If your child has sufficiently high needs to claim DLA then get on that straight away and that will mean they are entitled to 15 free hours a week NOW. You may also qualify for carers allowance for them and if that is the case then they qualify for 30 free hours instead of 15. Giving you time to focus on your youngest DC.

This is the most important thing I want you to know now though - my DD is one of the happiest, sunniest, funniest and most confident children. Everybody loves her. She's absolutely brilliant. And she adores her big brother.

It feels hard because it is OP. You aren't failing. You're in a very very stressful situation right now. But it will change, I promise.

I don't think it's normal.

Mine weren't this bad - DN can apparently be so he is taken green spaces with family dog and let lose fairly frequently. My kids got on which helped hugely. Outdoor run around time lots of it, routines - especially bedtime and count down to changes - looking for sensory issues - lots of walking - -baby on hip/sling/pushchair and watching toddler -- toys activity while cooking all now look to be ND.

Food diary - one on mine went mad with one food colouring in a lot of odd items.

If you've tried all that - then I'd get urgent to GP and HV again.

He's broke his nose just running into the wall.
He just head smashes himself.

My autistic child does this.

I have children with a similar aged gap, and I don’t think what you are experiencing is normal. Can you speak to the Senco at school about your eldest and health visitor about your middle child?

Hmm my two are 6 and 2 and a bit similar. My eldest is the most difficult one though! Always has been. They fight less than you're describing but I think the age gap helps with that, I reckon if they were closer in age they would fight even more. I grew up in a household where my DM has 3 of us under 5 for a little while and we definitely all fought tons until I was about 9 or 10 I'd say (I'm the eldest). She mostly just used to ignore us and leave us to it tbh and that's what I try to do with my two as much as possible although obviously with the youngest still only being 2 I can't always do that safely yet.

Would he sit (strapped) in a high chair with snacks and things to do while you cook dinner. He’d be more on your level and you could chat to him as you cook. You could even give him something to ‘Prepare’.

Your 6 yr old might be glad of the break from him, at the end of a school day, too.

I used to strap both of my ADD kids in and give them stuff to do, so I could get on with stuff in the kitchen. Left to their own devices, they caused absolute havoc. They seemed to enjoy being high up and having a chat.

That's not normal. I think you are right to get the ASD assessment started as it takes so long. I think you know there's something else going on, and while you'll probably have to fight to get help it will be worth it. Good luck.