AIBU to think the spouse visa income requirement should not be increased to £38k per year?

[Shardonneigghhh]

My post was moved to politics and activism, so I've amended it and added a poll to make it more suitable for AIBU. Thank you to everyone who already commented or signed the petition.

Can we talk about how the increased income requirement for spouse visas if affecting British citizens with a partner of a different nationality?

The policies it seem we're introduced to reduce the number of migrants, by preventing workers who come to the UK from bringing their family members with them.
This also affects British citizens who with to bring a spouse of family member to the uk to live with them.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9920/#:~:text=The%20spouse%2Fpartner%20visa%20minimum,report%20by%2014%20May%202024.

If someone falls in love with a non British person, and they want to live together in the uk, it is expected that the British person earns enough money to support their spouse without claiming any public funds. You have to evidence this when applying for a spouse visa, along with proving that your relationship is genuine. This minimum income requirement was £18,600, but was increased on April 11th to £29,000, with a further increase expected in 2025, to £38,000 per year.

This means that the British spouse will have to earn £38,000 in order to live together with their spouse in the uk. This income is out of reach for so many people. Basically if you are on a low income, you have no hope of your partner living with you in the uk. Women are often disproportionately affected by this as we learn less money overall, and if there are children to care for this may impact how much they can earn, bearing in mind if the husband is overseas he cannot look after the children while she works.

There is also a visa fee of £1846 and minimum nhs surcharge of £1035 per year (this is paid upfront to cover 3 or 5 years at point of application).

Please consider signing this petition.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/652602

On the one hand we desperately need the nurses and carers that I have seen a massive influx in, usually from India and Philippines, but on the other we are not equipped for such an influx of people. Securing accommodation for even a single person has become really difficult. I deal with finding school places through work and I've never in twenty years seen a child that could not be placed fairly locally, but now it's very common for newcomers to be at home for months without a place, even when you try adjacent boroughs.
ETA: I'm approaching this from purely an immigration issue, where the (usually woman) only wants to come if her husband/children can come too. Now that I've reread your post, I can see it's more about Brits living here who want to bring a spouse. £38k is a lot, and I know of men who brought wives 10 years ago and they still have to pay extortionate renewal fees annually. I'm more sympathetic though to the immigrant workers we are in a chronic shortage of in bringing their families, and I think there should be a reduction/exemption in that case.

£38,000 might well be out of reach for many, however when we consider even basic costs like housing, fuel, food etc then it really doesn't go that far (and am I not 100% sure the rules around access to benefits if you haven't been resident in the UK for long). That's also before we consider where we are going to put all these people, being as there is a dire shortage of social housing and private rentals. We don't want people to end up living in cramped accommodation, with landlords who only care about the money and not the welfare of their tenants - that's where people end up when they cannot afford/find decent housing, sadly.

It's a really cruel policy.

If the problem is immigrant carers and HCP coming and daring to want to bring their families, then perhaps it would be more sensible to raise the wages and retain/attract British talent. Seems more sensible and cheaper to society overall than having to deal with providing services to "outsiders".

Cold they afford to support a spouse on a lower salary though? I agree with not being able to claim benefits.

Most people on family visas will be living with their British partner.

That fact doesn't negate any of what I wrote though.
£38000 is a reasonable income until you start counting the actual cost of living.
If they have dependant children then there will be costs associated with that too.
I don't feel that it's unfair, I get that others might, especially if it affects them personally.

I'm on a (work related) social/council housing group on facebook. There is such hostility now to 'non locals' getting housing, and a very strong narrative of "if you're non white/Muslim/Ukrainian you'll get put to the top of the list". I read a post just yesterday saying that all the foreign engineers and doctors are coming here for free council houses, which I thought was quite amusing!

Inflation isn’t it. It seems like a reasonable amount though considering the median wage is ~35K.

Using this calculator It’s pretty close to right in the middle.

With a household after tax income of £579 per week, you have a higher income than around 47% of the population - equivalent to about 31.2 million individuals.

Anything under that and I wouldn’t think 2 people could live without public assistance

The .gov website says
”If you apply for a family visa as a partner, you and your partner usually need to prove that your combined income is at least £29,000 a year.
This is called a ‘minimum income requirement’.
The financial requirements are different if either:

• your partner is getting certain disability or carer’s benefits
• you first applied as a partner before 11 April 2024 and you’re extending that visa - this includes if you first applied as a fiancé, fiancée or proposed civil partner

How you prove your income depends on how you got it. You may be able to use your savings instead of income to show you meet the requirement. Check the information and evidence you’ll need to prove your income.”

I know the £29k is supposed to go up to £38k in 2025, but the website says it is combined income, not income of the British sponsor.

There are also exemptions if your British partner is getting disability or carer’s benefits.

You can also use savings to qualify instead.

I do agree the threshold is too high because of the way the Home Office assess income they don’t count current earned income abroad, they only count U.K. earned income. It stands to reason a person that earns a good wage abroad, would earn a similar wage in the U.K. they should be at least going by job title of their current job, say project manager or nurse in Italy and then crediting the average £ wage a project manager or nurse makes in the U.K.

I am not sure why you have quoted me tbh.
I am not 'hostile' to 'non-locals' or any of the other things you have written, I am simply making the point that we have a massive shortage of social housing and that good rentals are becoming more expensive too.
I live in an island community and frequently hear disgruntled locals commenting on how 'the incomers get the houses' - this generally isn't true at all. Some 'incomers' end up in social housing because they have done a 'house swap', a few end up because of extreme need (which would push them up the queue in any area) and many have to join the list like everyone else!

I got caught up in this ten years ago.

I got married in the Uk to a non eu citizen living and working here. We got married and had children and then we went to live in Australia. When we wanted to come back to the UK I couldn't get him in as I wasn't earning £16800.

I had been married thirteen years by the time we applied and we had two children. Dh is a really high wage earner both before we left the UK and while we lived in Australia but none of his income counted. It is only the UK spouse's income.

I’d exploit this loophole:
”If you cannot meet these financial requirements you may still be able to apply for a visa or extend your stay if:

• you have a child in the UK who is a British or Irish citizen or has lived in the UK for 7 years and it would be unreasonable for them to leave the UK
• it would breach your human rights to stop you coming to the UK or make you leave”

https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income-partner

British partner moves to U.K. with an anchor British baby first, then foreign partner can apply for and get visa to join them on the above grounds.

'Anchor British baby'?

@SummerFeverVenice
The combined income applies to visa renewal when both spouses are living and working in the uk.
In order to obtain the first visa, it is only the income of the British spouse.

We were going to use the Surrindah Singh loophole (which is now closed I think) but it was going to be so expensive for us to run two homes and we didn't want to live apart for all of that time.

That sounds awful. What happened in the end?

What website is that? Mine is the current UK.gov website for apply, extend or switch.

It makes sense to increase. It needs to be enough to live on . That price has increased SIGNIFICANTLY. To be completely honest it should probably be higher.

@SummerFeverVenice

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9920#:~:text=The%20spouse%2Fpartner%20visa%20minimum,report%20by%2014%20May%202024.

I've told my DCs not to fall in love with anyone from abroad as it creates all sorts of difficult legal situations I wouldn't want for them. Not just this but the potential for their partner to take their DCs abroad and not return them.

Why create these problems for yourself?

The level has been set to cover the costs of the principle plus a dependent. £38,000 to support two people is realistic. The tax on that sum is their contribution to roads and infrastructure, policing, defence, local & central government, water, sewerage, power, housing etc.

That's what is costs for the principle to support their spouse without relying on benefits so it needs to be that high. . How else would they survive?

If the person migrating here has skills that are in short supply here, they could get a skilled worker visa of their own.

It also protects vulnerable individuals with British passports from being used by unscrupulous partners simply to get a visa.

@Meadowfinch

"It also protects vulnerable individuals with British passports from being used by unscrupulous partners simply to get a visa."

Only on low incomes. If the British passport holder earns over £38k this does not protect them. There are other ways of protecting the sponsors, currently there are steps in place where the applicant has to prove the relationship is genuine.

Thank you, but I think that is an error in the briefing. The Gov appendix FM states
15. In respect of paragraph 13(b) and paragraph 13(d), the provisions in this paragraph also apply:
(a) In order to evidence the level of gross annual income required by Appendix FM, the person must meet the requirements in paragraph 13(b) or paragraph 13(d)(i); and
(b) The person must also meet the level of gross annual income required by Appendix FM on the basis that their income is the total of:
(i) The gross income from salaried employment in the UK or overseas earned by the person in the 12 months prior to the date of application;
(ii) The gross amount of any specified non-employment income (other than pension income) received by the person or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application;
(iii) The gross amount received from a UK or foreign State pension or a private pension by the person or their partner in the 12 months prior to the date of application; and
(iv)The person cannot combine the gross annual income at paragraph 15(b)(i)-(iii) with specified savings in order to meet the level of income required.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

I think it’s fair, as two people living on less than that will be a struggle in many places in th4 uk, and they shouldn’t be able to claim benefits.

Isn't brexit wonderful. Having a terrible impact on families