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To reduce hours when labour win election

877 replies

Parttimeplay · 24/05/2024 01:40

I fall into the “60%” tax bracket. With the upcoming elections and knowing the government always hammer the middle ground….woudlnt it make more sense for me to cut my hours for a more relaxed life, eligibility for childcare, reduced tax?

OP posts:
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24
Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 10:54

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 10:18

I'm not sure it reduces corruption. The problem with PR is the use of candidate lists. If you had corrupt politicians sitting at the top of their party's lists, then they'd get elected and there's no way of getting them out unless people (everybody) vote(s) for another party.

No system is perfect, but FPTP is a scam that keeps the incumbent two main parties in power. How many Labour voters would switch their votes to fringe parties (such as Greens, Extinction Rebellion, Open Borders, Communists, etc) under PR?

But would we want those parties forming coalitions?

The MP of St Helens South is Marie Rimmer.
She is a shining ad for any system that has not elected her.
In her defence, she has been found "Not guilt" and "Not proven" on a fair few occasions.

GasPanic · 29/05/2024 10:55

PR is just a red herring to me.

The idea that parties like Reform, UKIP and the Greens don't influence policy is not correct.

It's just that they do it from outside parliament rather than inside. These parties have a huge effect on Tory and Labour policy. The EU referendum would not have happened without UKIP and the Greens had a huge influence in moving both the Tories and Labour to take environmental policies more seriously.

When parliaments get fragmented through the introduction of PR governments just become dysfunctional rather than focusing on enacting change.

You just have to look at Europe to see where it ends up. Belgium have got one of the most dysfunction governments out there. Along with Italy. Germany aren't doing too great at the moment either.

EasternStandard · 29/05/2024 10:56

GasPanic · 29/05/2024 10:55

PR is just a red herring to me.

The idea that parties like Reform, UKIP and the Greens don't influence policy is not correct.

It's just that they do it from outside parliament rather than inside. These parties have a huge effect on Tory and Labour policy. The EU referendum would not have happened without UKIP and the Greens had a huge influence in moving both the Tories and Labour to take environmental policies more seriously.

When parliaments get fragmented through the introduction of PR governments just become dysfunctional rather than focusing on enacting change.

You just have to look at Europe to see where it ends up. Belgium have got one of the most dysfunction governments out there. Along with Italy. Germany aren't doing too great at the moment either.

Also an interesting argument against

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 10:59

@GasPanic, more an argument for PR. We have seen in the USA how a party can be captured by a faction, that can then command outsized power. It could certainly happen with the Tories and could have been said to have happened to Labour.

frankentall · 29/05/2024 11:08

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 10:59

@GasPanic, more an argument for PR. We have seen in the USA how a party can be captured by a faction, that can then command outsized power. It could certainly happen with the Tories and could have been said to have happened to Labour.

Exactly - UKIP's influence has been disproportionate. They should have had representatives elected in line with the millions of votes cast for them, and been tested in parliament. If that had happened, we'd likely not have had Brexit.

The current system where a party can get millions of votes and zero parliamentary representation is madness.

GasPanic · 29/05/2024 11:15

Better a party than an entire parliament.

In the UK the two main parties evolve rather than completely re invent themselves to head off vote loss to fringe parties.

In PR the barrier to entry to parliament for fringe parties is much less and that means they can rise more quickly to get power without moderation. If that process can happen quickly enough then it can lead to some very undesirable outcomes. See Germany at the current time.

EasternStandard · 29/05/2024 11:26

The main issue related to the last few posts will continue to put rising pressure on politics in whichever form

It’ll likely keep being the case until people work out how to fix the strained law

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 12:24

@GasPanic,I am writing from mainland Europe and the UK is seen as an example of how things can go wrong.
The UK is big and there are important divisions. Roughly, the UK split into ten regions, with approx 60 MPs. That would require a couple of % to get an MP and that threshold could be raised.

GasPanic · 29/05/2024 12:40

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 12:24

@GasPanic,I am writing from mainland Europe and the UK is seen as an example of how things can go wrong.
The UK is big and there are important divisions. Roughly, the UK split into ten regions, with approx 60 MPs. That would require a couple of % to get an MP and that threshold could be raised.

Maybe rather than focusing their time on "how the UK has gone wrong" Europeans might be better off spending their time putting their own house in order.

When I look at previous problems in Italy, Belgium and current ones in places like France, Germany and the Netherlands I don't see any gold standard of governance that I think the UK would be better adopting. In fact quite the opposite, and an increasingly vocal number of Europeans feeling that the UK general public actually might have some valid feelings about the EU in general.

The UK has it's issues but it is not the only place to have them and I don't see that shuffling round electoral systems is the thing that is going to make the difference to some of the realities re economics that we have yet to face up to.

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 13:42

@GasPanic You literally just posted about how it was wrong abroad in your previous post and now declare that pointless? Come on.

Bibi12 · 30/05/2024 00:52

Spaghettily · 27/05/2024 05:54

So, one of the reasons that for the massive inequality and the unaffordable housing and high rents in this country is because those with the most buy the most. So the wealthy buy the property, take in rent for doing very little, earn way more and then buy more. It becomes a money making cycle. They avoid tax by setting up companies and holding companies that are based overseas so they pay very little tax and make tons of money. This reduces the housing stick and prices the average buyer out. So the ordinary working person has to pay so much rent they can’t save a deposit and means they are stuck renting for the rest of their life. Taxing income won’t tackle this. It hits ordinary working people too hard.

Average yield on rental property is about 5%. It's a very long term , risky investment that pays off after years. The main reason rents are high is due to iincreased mortgage rates and high demand.

There are already not enough rental properties because many landlords are selling as it's not worth it anymore. So be careful what you wish for because number of rental properties reduced massively in past years and government is not in a hurry to build affordable housing. That will push cost of renting even further.

Sweden99 · 30/05/2024 06:47

@Bibi12, while I agree that property is a poor investment, it is the only significant one available to most working people. A bank will not lend me a few hundred thousand to buy shares, nor would I be able to live in them for a while.
I am a landlord but the entitlement seems very real for many landlords. People charge "market rate" as though that does not mean "as much as I can realistically get away with". Also the idea that rent has to be high "to at least cover my mortgage" as though borrowing money for an investment means you are inherently owed that money back.

Zonder · 30/05/2024 16:44

Yeah someone posted that previously. The headline is based on one poll by a conservative backing company. No other pollsters are finding such a small lead. Nice try though.

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 16:51

Zonder · 30/05/2024 16:44

Yeah someone posted that previously. The headline is based on one poll by a conservative backing company. No other pollsters are finding such a small lead. Nice try though.

I think that is absolute rubbish and we will see on election day 🥳

Zonder · 30/05/2024 16:55

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 16:51

I think that is absolute rubbish and we will see on election day 🥳

You think the spectator headline is rubbish? Yeah I agree. I mean even in their own article they show all other polls giving a different story.

You really can't take the Spectator seriously.

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 17:00

Zonder · 30/05/2024 16:55

You think the spectator headline is rubbish? Yeah I agree. I mean even in their own article they show all other polls giving a different story.

You really can't take the Spectator seriously.

Aaahh but we can take the Labour pills seriously can’t we 😂😂

Zonder · 30/05/2024 17:03

I don't know what Labour pills you're taking!

Anyway there are plenty of polls from a wide range of leanings. It just so happens that only the JL Partners one gives Labour such a small lead. They are famously Tory.

BIossomtoes · 30/05/2024 18:47

I looked at J L Partners directors’ backgrounds. I wouldn’t believe them if they predicted it was going to get dark tonight.

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 18:56

Zonder · 30/05/2024 17:03

I don't know what Labour pills you're taking!

Anyway there are plenty of polls from a wide range of leanings. It just so happens that only the JL Partners one gives Labour such a small lead. They are famously Tory.

I think what we will see is a huge swing in all polls as we get closer, and especially once Starmer enters the leadership discussions. He still has trouble figuring out penises belong to men, I really don’t fancy Starmer’s chances, and the publics’ opinion of Labour seems to tank every time he opens his mouth. He reminds me of Ed Miliband minus the sandwich. 🥪

Starmer10 · 30/05/2024 19:37

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 18:56

I think what we will see is a huge swing in all polls as we get closer, and especially once Starmer enters the leadership discussions. He still has trouble figuring out penises belong to men, I really don’t fancy Starmer’s chances, and the publics’ opinion of Labour seems to tank every time he opens his mouth. He reminds me of Ed Miliband minus the sandwich. 🥪

Really.
Even I don’t think that 🤣
He is crap I agree, he can’t speak or think for himself, his policies are non existent, the same as the Conservatives (I loved reading Labours energy policy stating they will be pioneering offshore wind farms, so pioneering the Conservatives have already finished two off the north coast 🤣🤣🤣), alienating or not costed out.

However
Its obvious Labour will get in as the majority of the population really don’t care what he’s saying, just that he’s standing against the Conservatives.

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 19:40

Starmer10 · 30/05/2024 19:37

Really.
Even I don’t think that 🤣
He is crap I agree, he can’t speak or think for himself, his policies are non existent, the same as the Conservatives (I loved reading Labours energy policy stating they will be pioneering offshore wind farms, so pioneering the Conservatives have already finished two off the north coast 🤣🤣🤣), alienating or not costed out.

However
Its obvious Labour will get in as the majority of the population really don’t care what he’s saying, just that he’s standing against the Conservatives.

Edited

I think you underestimate the British public at your peril history tells us..

Starmer10 · 30/05/2024 20:13

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 19:40

I think you underestimate the British public at your peril history tells us..

I do hope I’m underestimating them

Zonder · 30/05/2024 23:08

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 18:56

I think what we will see is a huge swing in all polls as we get closer, and especially once Starmer enters the leadership discussions. He still has trouble figuring out penises belong to men, I really don’t fancy Starmer’s chances, and the publics’ opinion of Labour seems to tank every time he opens his mouth. He reminds me of Ed Miliband minus the sandwich. 🥪

This is going to be interesting on July 5th.

Sweden99 · 31/05/2024 07:40

Polishedshoesalways · 30/05/2024 17:00

Aaahh but we can take the Labour pills seriously can’t we 😂😂

Opinium are very conservative regarding Labour's lead and the one I trust most. I very much doubt the 20 point lead, as Reform vote will collapse a little and the Tory vote turns out.