Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To reduce hours when labour win election

877 replies

Parttimeplay · 24/05/2024 01:40

I fall into the “60%” tax bracket. With the upcoming elections and knowing the government always hammer the middle ground….woudlnt it make more sense for me to cut my hours for a more relaxed life, eligibility for childcare, reduced tax?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
Polishedshoesalways · 28/05/2024 15:41

GasPanic · 28/05/2024 15:35

Economies are like oil tankers. You can't turn them round on a sixpence.

People were groaning like hell about Tory austerity (and probably still are) but it took them pretty much 5 years to arrest the upwards trajectory from Labour and get spending under control before covid. God knows where we would have been now without it, pretty confident that if Labour had been growing the debt at the same rate they were from 2008 to 2010 then we would have been at the IMF cap in hand by 2018.

I'm not sure it would have been politically possible for Labour to get the debt under control following the GFC. We would have just either gone bust, or more likely had massive wealth destroying inflation, and the Labour government would have just collapsed.

Yes and now we are faced with the same issues again. Labour pledges are out of control already. People have short memories.

GasPanic · 28/05/2024 15:47

Polishedshoesalways · 28/05/2024 15:41

Yes and now we are faced with the same issues again. Labour pledges are out of control already. People have short memories.

I don't think it is fair to say their pledges are out of control without seeing the manifestos and the spending plans.

But I do think there are going to be a lot of surprises for their supporters who are expecting a spending splurge when they actually get in power.

The bottom line is we cannot borrow much more money. So all spending whether it be Labour or the Tories has got to be funded.

All I am hearing from Labour at the moment is we are not going to raise tax x, y or z. All I hear from Labour supporters is vote Labour to get more funding for you (whoever you is).

But if they aren't going to raise the taxes, and they can't borrow more money, how exactly are they going to spend more ? We will have to see when the costed manifestos come out.

But at the moment it is a mystery that ranks up there with BigFoot and the Bermuda Triangle.

ThisOldThang · 28/05/2024 15:48

BIossomtoes · 28/05/2024 15:14

Impossible. No matter how much you run round MN shouting “We’re doomed”. Some of us are old enough to remember when we last had a Labour government and could find an NHS dentist and didn’t have to wait years for treatment or weeks for a GP appointment. Surely by now you’ve noticed how ineffectual your doom mongering is and how often your misinformation is corrected?

"Some of us are old enough to remember when we last had a Labour government and could find an NHS dentist and didn’t have to wait years for treatment or weeks for a GP appointment."

Some people have very short memories.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Do3Y3ga7dyE

Before you continue to YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/Do3Y3ga7dyE

frankentall · 28/05/2024 16:38

All getting a bit desparate for the poor Tories now. The fearmongering won't work this time.

EasternStandard · 28/05/2024 16:42

frankentall · 28/05/2024 16:38

All getting a bit desparate for the poor Tories now. The fearmongering won't work this time.

Do you think @GasPanic posts are ‘fear mongering’?

frankentall · 28/05/2024 17:20

EasternStandard · 28/05/2024 16:42

Do you think @GasPanic posts are ‘fear mongering’?

More measured than all the other shrieking, but the contention we'd have had to go to the IMF if not for the glorious Tory austerity seems somewhat informed by pro-Tory bias to me. Of course, like all the best claims of its type it is unknowable and unprovable, just like all the Thatcher apologists claims that's we'd have been fucked without her.

I make no secret of my anti-Tory bias of course.

Spaghettily · 28/05/2024 17:49

whistleblower99 · 27/05/2024 18:51

Recent posters are proving what a dog whistle policy the school fees thing is. It’s a huge red herring to encourage politics of envy under the guise of equality. We can’t have that so why should they. It’s not even what the op was focussing on. Dropping hours because of the tax system is already happening. It will get worse with dog whistle policies surrounding fees, income tax and pensions.

Facts are quite simple. Not everyone has the intelligence or capability to study and compete in the highly skilled jobs market. That’s just a reality. The only two options would be to dumb the whole nation down and we are doing a good job of that or let everyone earn the same. That’s communism. We are already hugely behind other countries for salaries in skilled trades. Hence the panic for cyber recruitment.

Uncomfortable truths. The huge majority of taxes are paid by higher earners on PAYE. Not the millionaires or billionaires. The workers who have done well in good careers. The tax system means that higher earners on PAYE - pay some of the highest marginal rates in the world with cliff edges everywhere. Our tax system is thus - it discourages work at certain points. A tax system where you can be worse off for working more is a fundamental failure. The issue is that is what is happening; the people who are funding the country with taxes are then discouraged from working more, taking that promotion or bonus. Hence why they had to change the pensions because not only was it harming productivity - it was removing consultants from our wards.

We also have one of the highest state dependencies in the western world. We can’t afford it and we have to borrow each month to pay the bill. Discouraging those who contribute from working more is a terrible idea. Scandi countries often so respected on here - get that. Hence free childcare, no tax on any education and the majority are expected to pay higher taxes. Not a tiny minority.

Anything that discourages higher earners to either work less or leave is an absolutely terrible idea as we can’t afford it. Without net contributors, we don’t have anything.

As I posted on the thread the other day - we are not an attractive country to skilled workers. Skills we need. Our taxes are high and our salaries are low. For example a cyber job - 100k here and 250k in the USA plus more benefits. These kinds of jobs are essential in today’s modern world. That’s why the government is panicking because all of our talent in these fields are leaving or dropping productivity.

Edited

You lost me at the word envy. I support the VAT on fees. Because it was never fair that it wasn’t already in place. I say this as someone who did use private education until a move and could now if I could be bothered with an hour back and forth journey to the nearest private school. I’m not envious.

What I am is sick of seeing abject poverty and inequality all around me. I want a fairer society. That’s it really.

Polishedshoesalways · 28/05/2024 17:56

Spaghettily · 28/05/2024 17:49

You lost me at the word envy. I support the VAT on fees. Because it was never fair that it wasn’t already in place. I say this as someone who did use private education until a move and could now if I could be bothered with an hour back and forth journey to the nearest private school. I’m not envious.

What I am is sick of seeing abject poverty and inequality all around me. I want a fairer society. That’s it really.

You are going to be sorely disappointed as this ill considered policy does absolutely nothing to address inequality and is likely to make it worse! PS will still exist and the best ones will become even more powerful thanks to this dumb idea.

State schools will become overloaded and guess who picks up the tab for all of the extra pupils? You.

whistleblower99 · 28/05/2024 18:49

Spaghettily · 28/05/2024 17:49

You lost me at the word envy. I support the VAT on fees. Because it was never fair that it wasn’t already in place. I say this as someone who did use private education until a move and could now if I could be bothered with an hour back and forth journey to the nearest private school. I’m not envious.

What I am is sick of seeing abject poverty and inequality all around me. I want a fairer society. That’s it really.

Again - proving the point. No-one cares where you got lost. You got lost by not answering the op or being able to discuss any concerns re the marginal tax rates. Dog whistle policies.

makeanddo · 28/05/2024 20:13

You certainly need to do some planning OP. Rachel Reeves has just announced that Labour won't rule out tax rises if they find a black hole in public finances.

So we're looking at tax rises. I'm willing to bet across the board.

I suppose the only positive thing is that they are admitting they are going to raise tax and not lying. They damn well know there's a massive hole, this is just the start of it.

frankentall · 28/05/2024 20:37

As I posted on the thread the other day - we are not an attractive country to skilled workers. Skills we need. Our taxes are high and our salaries are low. For example a cyber job - 100k here and 250k in the USA plus more benefits. These kinds of jobs are essential in today’s modern world. That’s why the government is panicking because all of our talent in these fields are leaving or dropping productivity.
Tories don't appear to be panicking.
This is where we are after 14 years of Tory government, all the myriad problems you highlight, and weirdly you advocate at least 5 more years of their ruinous policies.

frankentall · 28/05/2024 20:41

As for dog whistle policies - could there be any better examples than National Service and the reintroduction of pensioner tax allowance (which the Tories removed) - the Tories haven't said where the money is ccoming from either.

Grammarnut · 28/05/2024 21:39

Sausagedogs123 · 28/05/2024 00:04

I do think it’s the squeezed middle that suffer. We pay more tax, we spend more on help because we have no spare time so cleaner, gardener, childminder outside of nursery / wrap around care. I needed to sign up to nursery that opens 7.30am until 6.30pm so that my husband and I can both get to the office and back as we live in more of a commuter city. I’m living like a student again wondering whether a Starbucks is actually a wasteful treat and our combined pay is £165k!!

We never get takeaways, sometimes get fish and chips we collect as that’s still reasonable. We have never paid for a deliveroo or Uber eats! We don’t have a care on finance either, just a very modest polo that I bought in cash from a dealership ex demo with 300 miles on it!

What I do see is a lot of people on low incomes driving top of the range cars, getting takeaways and always in the pubs on a weekend! They either have a lot of debt or are getting topped up healthily by UC where they get 75% of the £18k nursery fee paid and then some!

I am very disgruntled, I worked very hard for my career which apparently you can’t do part time at my level. Its all a total joke really!

I doubt that people on low income are driving expensive cars or have most of their childcare paid for. If you have little then pleasures such as takeaways are all you have. There is no hope for the future, there is only now. Don't be so envious of poverty.

whistleblower99 · 28/05/2024 21:49

frankentall · 28/05/2024 20:37

As I posted on the thread the other day - we are not an attractive country to skilled workers. Skills we need. Our taxes are high and our salaries are low. For example a cyber job - 100k here and 250k in the USA plus more benefits. These kinds of jobs are essential in today’s modern world. That’s why the government is panicking because all of our talent in these fields are leaving or dropping productivity.
Tories don't appear to be panicking.
This is where we are after 14 years of Tory government, all the myriad problems you highlight, and weirdly you advocate at least 5 more years of their ruinous policies.

Eh what? No I don’t. What part of I hate what the Tories have done and would never vote for them missed you? Just because I think Labour are also a disaster waiting to happen doesn’t equal Tory voter. Try reading the posts properly. I understand ops issues so have commented on them. I also understand them from the specialist skills market who can command higher salaries. I haven’t got lost banging on about private schools.

Polishedshoesalways · 29/05/2024 06:02

whistleblower99 · 28/05/2024 21:49

Eh what? No I don’t. What part of I hate what the Tories have done and would never vote for them missed you? Just because I think Labour are also a disaster waiting to happen doesn’t equal Tory voter. Try reading the posts properly. I understand ops issues so have commented on them. I also understand them from the specialist skills market who can command higher salaries. I haven’t got lost banging on about private schools.

It’s fair to say most of the main parties are in disarray. That is an honest assessment. I think we would ALL prefer something better!

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 07:24

The political system has been captured by the parties. They force their preferred candidates onto constituencies and it results in a self-reinforcing Westminster clique that is completely detached from the public and their own party members. We've now got a Conservative Party full of social democrats and a Labour Party obsessed with fringe issues that are irrelevant/hostile to their own traditional voters.

Nothing will change while we have First Past The Post, because it's impossible to break their hold on power - e.g. UKIP won two elections that were held under PR, but got nowhere under FPTP.

Something desperately needs to change.

EasternStandard · 29/05/2024 07:27

I think we’ll face political strain while countries work out how to deal with an international law now unmatched to impacts of climate pressures and volatility. You’ll see it in the EU too.

We don’t know how to rectify without parties pulling in different directions.

BIossomtoes · 29/05/2024 09:12

UKIP won two elections that were held under PR, but got nowhere under FPTP

That isn’t actually true but if it was, that’s the best argument I can think of for retaining FPTP.

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 09:17

Apologies. They came first in 2014 and second in 2009.

If you're happy to continue with the current failing system, then fair enough. It prevents 'extreme' views from being represented, but it also disenfranchises the majority of the public who are 'forced' to vote for the lesser of two evils, rather than what they actually want.

Is that democracy?

frankentall · 29/05/2024 09:40

BIossomtoes · 29/05/2024 09:12

UKIP won two elections that were held under PR, but got nowhere under FPTP

That isn’t actually true but if it was, that’s the best argument I can think of for retaining FPTP.

I have wondered if we'd have had the Brexit referendum if we'd had PR instead of our wanky out of date system.
If Farage and his mates had been elected and turned up in parliament they might well have been shown up for their inability to do anything useful - as they did in many local elections.

frankentall · 29/05/2024 09:42

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 09:17

Apologies. They came first in 2014 and second in 2009.

If you're happy to continue with the current failing system, then fair enough. It prevents 'extreme' views from being represented, but it also disenfranchises the majority of the public who are 'forced' to vote for the lesser of two evils, rather than what they actually want.

Is that democracy?

We are way overdue a proper electoral system instead of the steaming pile of wank that is FPTP.

Sweden99 · 29/05/2024 09:50

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 09:17

Apologies. They came first in 2014 and second in 2009.

If you're happy to continue with the current failing system, then fair enough. It prevents 'extreme' views from being represented, but it also disenfranchises the majority of the public who are 'forced' to vote for the lesser of two evils, rather than what they actually want.

Is that democracy?

I disagree with your politics, but I agree with this post.
Under FPTP, negative campaigning is very effective as you are essentially voting against a party.
Under PR, you are voting for the party you actually want and that is much more engaging. It also reduces corruption.

ThisOldThang · 29/05/2024 10:18

I'm not sure it reduces corruption. The problem with PR is the use of candidate lists. If you had corrupt politicians sitting at the top of their party's lists, then they'd get elected and there's no way of getting them out unless people (everybody) vote(s) for another party.

No system is perfect, but FPTP is a scam that keeps the incumbent two main parties in power. How many Labour voters would switch their votes to fringe parties (such as Greens, Extinction Rebellion, Open Borders, Communists, etc) under PR?

But would we want those parties forming coalitions?

EasternStandard · 29/05/2024 10:43

I haven’t felt strongly about PR, although we may be getting to the point enough voters feel disenfranchised that it becomes a problem