Who is BU, me or the nursery?

[changedit1234]

Dd not been at this nursery long, I booked a holiday a while ago for this week and put on the nursery app that dd would have a holiday this week, but this holiday has since been cancelled at short notice, I called the nursery as soon as I found out which was the day before her usual day in to explain and ask if it was ok to cancel the holiday and bring dd in tomorrow as the holiday had been cancelled. I was advised that I would have to call in the morning to check if there had been any cancelled sessions or reported sickness as they may be at full capacity.
I questioned this and said but dd would usually be there anyway on these days and I've paid her fees already, they said yes but as you'd booked them out as holiday we have let her space go to someone else for that week.
I called on day 1, they said were at full capacity so she couldn't go in, same again on day 2.
Is this usual or are my nursery being awkward with me? Asking as I genuinely don't know....

Sounds normal.
Staff days off and they might have accepted someone else who needed an extra day.

Presume your contract states you pay even if on holiday? Does it say anything about having to use a certain number of holidays?
If not then n future I wouldn't book them out until the day before.

The fees will be based on a year round place. They have to give staff paid holidays and they have to pay staff for fixed hours per week normally. If they let people have refunds for unused days then they could easily end up with too many staff and not enough money to pay.

If they've allocated her place to someone else they should be refunding that week to you.

Either the place is available and you pay for it, even if you're on holiday or it isn't.

I think it’s a response that meets their behaviour at their level. Not childcare related but I remember around covid people talking about rights to refunds on events, trips, services etc and that it they could sell something on which you cancelled then they legally couldn’t keep your money too - perhaps have a google

I don't think it is normal, nor good business.
Obviously, once people know this, they are just going to not tell Nursery in advance.
I don't see how they can justify still taking the fees from you and selling the place to someone else.
I am also surprised they have filled one place for a week.

They aren't going to be able to manage with one member of staff less by one child being off. Different if it were half term week, when lots more would be likely to be off.

You don’t have to lie . It’s not school . You can simply let them know the day you go .

Surely the whole reason you are charged when your child is on holiday is because they are holding the space? I had it when I had a holiday and returned early and I took him in (it was a family loss so my patience was frayed, I may have been less bolshy normally)... they said 'oh, I will check if we can take him' and I said 'if you can't then you owe me the money as I paid for today and you have taken it for today'

It was irrelevant as they did take him but I wouldn't be happy to be charged for a day they don't then give us access to if needed

I think that's fair, but they will probably say they can't accommodate the week your mum is away because of ratios (whether that's true or not!).

If they refuse the days in September and a refund for the week, you could argue it's an unfair contract term - they get paid twice for one space, and you get charged but no childcare, and none in lieu. Bear in mind though if it gets to the point you have to start citing contract law at them, it will probably sour relations and you risk jeopardising your childcare long term. I'd start with reasonable and fair requests - you've paid for childcare, they've been paid twice, so would you prefer to give me the time or the money back?

I think it's completely outrageous and yet another example how we get ripped off constantly and just accept it !

Lesson learnt, the next time tell them the day before.

I just booked a last minute trip and I told them a pickup the day before I left.

I will continue to do this.

How some people think this is normal, is beyond me.

It just seems like we are willing to accept being shafted left right and centre in this country.

Go to some other places and people would be up in arms about so many things we accept.

OP, definitely ask them to not charge you for the days you need in September.

If you're paying for the week but not using it cos you're away .then why tell them in the future ...I mean if you called her in as sick she'd not be there and they couldn't fill the place to double up on fees ...so another time do that then if holiday is cancelled she can just go in !?!?

We would still have you on the register as holiday but your child wouldn’t have been included in the ratio for that week and staffing would have been arranged around them being off.

We had a similar situation recently and the extra child coming in unexpectedly pushed us to one over ratio so needed emergency staff cover for that room. We are usually pretty accommodating to changes so long as we know before the end of the previous week.

Doesn't matter if this seems to be normal practice nowadays, it's absolute bullshit.

DD has been out of nursery for a decade but if you're paying for a service you should be able to receive it. They should give you the money back as they're not able to provide the service. It's very different from paying when children don't go because that's your choice.

That's fine but in that case they shouldn't be charging for the time off

This is what any business would do. Ridiculous to think they wouldn't fill the slot.

I'd be raging, and wouldn't expect it for a second at ours. We aren't in England though so I don't think things are as dire with either funding or staffing.

I'd be expecting a refund for this week - you pay on holidays to keep your place and they haven't kept it - but having the days in September free of charge in lieu would be a reasonable compromise.

@changedit1234 i don’t understand why you told them in advance? If you’ve paid then just don’t use them if you go away? I didn’t know you were supposed to tell nursery and seems quite cheeky they are being paid twice effectively for a child to attend in her place!

This is pretty standard at our nursery but if you give sufficient notice of holidays then you have the hours to use on any additional days they have space. Otherwise nobody would let them know about holidays.

At our nursery they tell us that the place is still
available even if we’ve put a holiday in and they don’t give the space away, never actually tried to cancel a holiday day though to see if that’s true. I have needed to book an extra session though when I knew a friends child was on holiday, they initially said they had no spaces but I spoke to my friend who said to ask to use her daughters space and they allowed me to do that with my friends permission so maybe they do keep the spaces.

So if you want the flexibility to book extra sessions, you need to accept that this will impact others.

What would you do if the child who is booked off in September decides to turn up after all?
Would you be happy for them to take thier day back and you have to lose the extra day you needed?

If you tell them you are off, they will make plans accordingly, especially when organising rotas for that week.

It's not unreasonable to ask for a refund, but I do think it's unreasonable to expect them to have a space for you.

Surely if you've paid full fees for the week, then you've paid for the space - holiday or not.

This^. Phone them every day of the holiday to let them know they've had a cancellation for the day.

When I was a childminder parents booked the place not the child. It was their space to use or not. Not mine to resell.

@changedit1234 this is all you need to do in future.

They haven't necessarily got any more money, our nursery had 3 rooms and when someone was on holiday they would use the spot to move one of the younger kids up for extra settling time in the room they were about to move up to, it eased the transitions between rooms massively being able to be a bit flexible with the kids that found it hard.

If nursery’s didn’t charge for days you decided not to bring your daughter in they would have an insecure income. People would take advantage and decide last minute not to send their child in for multiple reasons if they didn’t still have to pay.

You are paying a set fee for childcare security.