To defend nursery on parents whatsap

[Whenthechipshitthefan]

I can't tell what the right thing to do it.
We have a nursery whatsap (its muted because otherwise it would drive me crazy). Recently one mum has been complaining about how nursery won't let them not pay the consumables charge for free hours when they're on holiday.
They've started looking up the legal rights and got a few other parenta commenting on her side but generally its a one- woman rant.
She has (rightly said) that it's not a cheap nursery. But seems to think its the nursery is putting profit first.
My view its- the nursery pays a really decent wage. It has a really low turnover of staff. They frequently post congratulating staff on their 10year anniversaries. They receive high levels of training.
But also- My daughters love it there. They are cared for, their individual needs taken care of and they have all kinds of extra enrichment activities (e.g. forest school with fires and other activities; interesting visitors giving talks to pre-school etc) all included. Surely everyone is aware that the 'consumables' charge has very little to do with actual consumables and more to do with topping up the gov subsidies that are being called "free hours"
I really want to say something. I know she will try and raise a stink and legally she is right- she doesn't have to pay for consumables and can opt out.
But if everyone did then either the nursery would have to stop being part of the scheme or raise prices more for the non free hours. Or pay staff less. Or lower levels of care.

I would like to say-
We all know that the consumables charge doesn't really relate to consumables but tops up the pittance
they get from the government under the false name "free hours" which allows staff to be paid a decent wage and higher than usual levels of training, (reflected in the low turnover) children to have extra- enrichment activities and the nursery to not charge more for non-"free" hours. I think we need to look at the bigger picture else fees will need to rise even more, or they will end up opting out of the "free hours" programme.

Should I just keep my mouth shut?

Don't engage - let her posts hang on the whatsapp group and then change the subject with a relevant question about what time pickup is today or if anyone's picked up a lost jumper/waterbottle by mistake. 99% of parents only want to be on the school whatsapp for those kinds of practical questions anyway.

Wow that's a huge amount extra even accounting for the bank hol 😱

I can sort of see why there's a bit of a fuss being made tbh

But its not £16 worth of consumables. Its £16 worth of (good quality)consumables plus activities plus staff who are well trained and want to be there.

I looked at a recent job advert and they pay junior staff £25k. For what they do for my daughters I am glad they do. It's probably not enough still.

There are so many nurseries around here- literally 4 on the same road. You can vote with your feet.

But in any case- her issue was paying for consumables when her child is on holiday. She would pay fees on non- free hours and I see it the same.

If she didn't pay the electricity/staff wages/activities/ even the food bill doesn't actually go down.

Because they were told by the government that’s what they had to call it.

As I said they don't call it that round here.

The government should let them be honest about what the top-up is paying for. My DD's nursery told us exactly what it was for and that's probably why people didn't mind paying it.

Very popular word on mumsnet. Particularly when it comes to shutting down women.

Can you please explain the entitlement in wanting to be charged for consumables that you consume?

If you put 5 gallons of petrol in your car and were charged for 7 would you complain?

£2 an hour is a lot, and charging it when the child isn't even there is outrageous IMO.

My child's preschool (rated outstanding, absolutely amazing place) charges £5 PER TERM as a contribution to fruit at snack time.

£15 per year. Kids all bring a packed lunch

Leave her dig her grave, hopefully will be a similar outcome to a MN parent who was recently being a pain in the arse to her nursery. Served a month’s notice.

Id just switch it to another topic as a previous poster suggested.

I paid more than that as a top-up.

As you say there are plenty of cheap places you can send your DC.

But if you want the extras, I think you should pay for them and you obviously should pay if you're there or not.

French, yoga, they own their own forest, lots of animals. The children bake with the fruit that they grow in their allotments and collect the eggs from the chickens.

Cheap doesn't mean they get less. Her previous nursery charged a lot more top up but provided a lot less. This one is not considered a budget option, but one of the best in the area.

The whole point is that they aren't using it for 'consumables', they are using it as top up. Others provide at least as good a service without high top up charges.

It does sound like a great nursery with overall high standards.
And it cost to maintain high standards.

I understand why you would like to defend them.

Fair enough If parent decided to look up legal rights and wants to challenge it if she feels she can't afford it.
But people who kick up a fuss on WhatsApp groups can be really annoying and pretty toxic.

You could gently and diplomatically express your opinion if you don't agree with her and feel like the nursery should be defended.

I use to work in la childcare services who authorise funding.

Nurseries, pre schools and childminders who sign up to receive the funding sign a contract agreeing they will not charge extra to families accessing the funding . But they can request a donation for food, nappies, day trips, crafts etc. However they must be clear this is a voluntary donation and parents can opt to provide their own food, nappies etc and therefore still receive the 'free funding' at no extra cost.

They also agree to deliver eyfs education and to monitor plan and review each child's education plan.

@Whenthechipshitthefan I think the message you suggested posting in OP is a good one.
I was in a similar situation recently and I'm glad I spoke up, I'd do so again even though there has been a bit of fallout in my social circle. I said something because it become obvious to me that a woman who was pursuing a complaint was taking everyone's silence as agreement. When in fact I was having lots of 1:1 conversations with other parents who thought she was being petty and vindictive. So I let her know this. Perhaps I was too blunt because she hasn't spoken with me since but she has wound up the whole complaints thing she was attempting to escalate.
But your message doesn't sound blunt or harsh at all. If you accept that there may be some negative repurcussions I think you should post it.

I’d reply:@ honestly I can’t get worked up about this, I love the nursery, the care is amazing and so are the meals, we all know the staff are not highly paid.

I would post what you originally thought. There might be a number of parents who think like you do but all don't want to get involved. We shouldn't let the one who shouts the loudest get the last say just because we don't want to say what we think.

I'd reply, but less preachy, something like: "Hmm. In reality, the consumables fee is used to top up the free hours that are not fully covered by the government. My worry would be that a shortfall in the consumables income would mean the nursery opts out of offering free hours altogether! 😧"

Maybe she is struggling and not paying it would make a world of difference to her finances?! That is a lot of money - I'd be annoyed if they were charging me for it too! I'm not going to donate money I can't afford - it is a business. Yes by all accounts a good nursery, but even so.

You are correct, however what tends to happen is nurseries end up closing or opting of schemes when people take this approach. The government massively underfund childcare (while ripping working parents off!) and taking the 'legal' approach often makes things worse for everyone

She sounds like a total nitwit. You will only make her dig her heels in more.

I am sure nursery are used to dealing with entitled dickheads, they dont need you to stick up for them in that regard.

Maybe leave them a nice review somewhere instead?

Isn't charging for 'consumables' but it actually being for other stuff, a bit fraudy? I can see that people might not want to pay for things that they are not getting/ could get cheaper themselves.

Ultimately the nursery is a business, a convenient one for sure but their existence is to make money for its owners, their convenience is an aside.

i can see why adding this arbitrary and seemingly compulsory “consumables” charge over and above the hourly rate is pissing off the other mum, especially when her kids aren’t there to use it. So she’s paying for your kids to have this wonderful experience at nursery in her absence.

It doesn’t matter how great the experience is for the kids, that’s a lot of additional money for things that a business ought to be able to cover because they’re a business. When you start your own business you take the risks you don’t pass it on to the consumers.

Would we expect or accept the same from a supermarket because they offer an essential service too? Just because the nursery has become an important part of your life and ability to work (or go to the gym or whatever you do) doesn’t mean they ought to fleece parents for more money on top of the fees.

We paid £2 a week for snacks at nursery. That was the only excess payment required. We had a great nursery, they had visitors and trips and good lunches too. It is possible to offer these things without conning parents out of more money.

Dgd nursery is £1 per hour. Like you I see it as the Nursery trying to balance the books in the most equitable way. She does 3 full days with 15 hrs of govt funding included.
However there will be those who see the price of everything and the value of nothing.

It's not a 'biy fraudy', it's fraud.

Committing fraud because otherwise your business can't make enough money (or profit) isn't acceptable in any other business.

It would be much better if they followed the law, and had a donations box where people could contribute extra if they wanted. Mandatory top up fees are illegal and should be treated as such.

If its fraud, please explain why there have been zero cases of nurseries ever being held accountable to this?