To think once you develop back pain it never goes away?

[FairTurtle]

I've had this now for 6 weeks, out of NOWHERE. It's constant. I've seen a chiro and an osteo and it's still no better. GP isn't concerned. NO HISTORY of back problems whatsoever. I'm 28 and healthy besides this. Wtf??????? Yoga poses and core strength exercises aren't helping.

I've been looking over the thread to see if this is mentioned. I was recently diagnosed with osteoarthritis through having x-rays. I'm of an age where it's no surprise, but it's been developing for years, probably, because my back and hips were out of alignment most of my life (one leg shorter than another) and I didn't know until about ten years ago. All of which is to say, get x-rays done, because what you think is probably muscular or nerves may in fact be bones and cartilage. I thought my back pain was muscular. It isn't.

The whole "degenerative disc disease is normal" line pisses me off. GPs so often use it to dismiss patients in pain.

@FairTurtle here's the link www.tmc-chiswick.com/
I didn't recognise list you posted for where I went.

That's really bad from the NHS, and short sighted from the government (who I assume tell the NHS to do this) because how many people end up being unable to work because of long term back pain that won't get treated by the NHS?

Good luck, keep persevering.
I just checked my health records from that time - my first physio appointment was in April '19, and by the end of July '19 my physiotherapist was writing that things were clearly improving, I was able to walk for around an hour a day at that point. So in 3 months there was significant improvement.

I'm a physio and I disagree. You may always be more prone to back pain, but you can recover. I say this from my experience at work and with friends and family.

Take the painkillers and keep moving - swimming, yoga, pilates, walking. If it hurts bending down, avoid this. Lie on your tummy to rest rather than sitting. Use a standing desk.

Don't discount the long covid effect - fatigue and pain are partners in crime- one effects the other. Look up explain pain video on you tube.

In my opinion osteo/ Chiro/ manipulation are short term solutions. See someone who will analyse why you have the back pain.

I hope you feel better soon. Being in pain is miserable.

I gave some tips up thread but something I find interesting is the link between damage and pain.

I have had scans arising from severely wedged vertebra L1 and T12 (obviously the first six weeks were extremely painful) which also identified degenerated discs and a couple of minimal bulges. The latter explained the couple of episodes of rank lower back pain in my late 40s/early 50s that I managed but had three episodes.

The first fracture was the catalyst to find a physio who also did pilates and some 1:1 training, who referred me to a podiatrist for tailored orthotics and all thenother tips above. Since putting in place all the tips in my earlier post there have been no recurrences of the lower back pain. A bit of a shame it took a broken vertebrae to lead me down the right path.

However, the point I am trying to make is despite some significant structural/mechanical issues I fortunately do not suffer any backpain. Except it is sometimes a little stiff and sometimes there is a dull achy tiredness in it if I go for a long walk (five plus miles on hikey ground). 15,000 steps around town including shops never has that effect!

In relation to the early pain, my GP said it resolved within six weeks so no physio referral and no investigations. On the first break, after established osteoporosis had already been diagnosed, the GP said they would consider a referral after six to eight weeks and wrote a sick note. Only when I asked the waiting time (which was 18 weeks) and noted firmly that 6+18 was 24 and I expected to be in the system promptly as full pay would run out after 26 weeks and so would my tax and nics contributions was the sick note amended and slammed back down on the table and a referral made. The referral actually came through in a fortnight and I saw a wonderful consultant who recommended I be referred to one of the best rheumatologists for optimal osteoporosis care.

The GP actually denied the second break because it had been misdiagnosed at A&E and I could nearly, after 7 weeks of agony touch my toes. I had to pay for a private referral to identify the extent of the problem. Rheumatology then recommended an injectable anabolic but because I was under 65, despite 5 breaks in 6 years, I was not eligible for the NHS to fund it so I had to self fund to the tune if £2,400 for a two year course. It has worked though and soon to go back on another three years of bisphosphonates.

So damage and pain is ill correlated and if there is little effective help or suppprt available from the NHS. I do not know to what extent I am pain free is due to nature or to self help but self help is available only at a price. Regrettable there seems to be no information available in relation to the cost of treatment compared to the cost to the economy of not providing it. It is a disgrace.

My apologies that turned into a essay.

Final point - if back pain sufferers can stretch to a heated car seat, it's a game changer.

Strengthening is as important as stretching IME. I deadlift almost 150kg and all my lower back niggles have disappeared over the past few years. Just get occasional stiffness in my spinal erectors the day after training which goes away with a few mins mobility work.

Come on @FairTurtle gey a shakti mat. A medium one, not the easy one. Build up to ten mins a day and I swear you will feel better in two weeks from then.

you can come back and update us !

google back pain + shatki mat.

no I don’t work for them! But keen to see if it will help you

I suffered with back pain for years. Nothing really helped and I accepted it was just something I was going to have to live with.

It’s gone now. Completely. Just gradually faded away. I don’t really know why, but my hunch is just becoming generally more active. I dislike exercise but I swim regularly; not for long and not fast, but I think it’s built up my general stamina. I don’t think it really matters what you do as long as you’re moving. It doesn’t have to be intense. So a few short walks a day, a bit of yoga, maybe try a weights class (I force myself to do this once a week - I don’t love it and I’m the crappest in the class, but I have got stronger).

Keep doing the exercises you’ve been given. Two weeks is nothing - it’s a long game. It would also be worth seeing a private physio if you can afford it.

In my experience, yoga doesn't really help. What you need is pilates and weights. When you say core strength exercises, what are you actually doing? - because that is likely where the solution lies.

Back pain is horrible, I've lived with it for years, but I see a noticeable difference when I exercise properly and regularly. It's about doing the right exercises though. Yoga is mostly for relaxation and stretching, it won't fix your back.

@Hariborocks thank you! Can I ask what exactly are strong lifts? I have some 3kg dumbells but I'm guessing that's not enough...

What kinds of moves?

Unfortunately I agree. I have arthritis and a rare chronic illness that affects my joints that I have had since I was 4, so I guess my point of view is a little different. But I never had back pain up until I was 21. I worked in an office, so was sitting at a desk all day and I got told it was that that was the cause of my back pain. I stopped working in an office and still years later the back pain never went away. I got told by my rheumatologist that it isn’t my arthritis so it’s just baffling that so many people have different joint pains that doesn’t have a pin point cause or diagnosis but is in pain/discomfort with it for the rest of their lives with it.

although, I would like to point out the way you walk can affect joint pain. Or even legs being different lengths causing the way you walk to be different. I had an ankle fusion and the way that I walk has been ‘different’ and the effect it’s had on alternate joints is huge. My back pain has got a lot worse, I now have knee and hip pain. It sounds crazy, but assess the way that you walk and what shoes you wear.

I was a physio for over 30 years, and your doctor friend is right about scans etc in your situation. I also would be very optimistic that you can become pain-free, and that by looking at your muscle imbalances, your back can become stronger throughout your life rather than weaker, and my own experience bears this out. I had back pain in my 20s on and off, which now does not exist at nearly 60, and has not been a problem since my 30s.

I do think most physios focus on muscle imbalance at the expense of general fitness, which is so needed and is possibly why this has hit whilst you are suffering from long coviid. Part of the reason I am still so serious about my general fitness is because I've seen how being extremely fit means I don't get pain from my joints. Strong muscles have hugely protective effects even on arthritic joints (I theoretically have osteoarthritis, but have no effects from it except in my hands).

With the complicating factor of long covid, if the pain persists, I'd ask your GP if you can be referred to a specialist mental health physio. This is not because the pain is all in your mind (although ALL pain, when push comes to shove, is 'all in the mind' since this is where pain is experienced), but because mental health physios have the skills to increase your exercise ability safely without causing a relapse.

Historically, mental health physios end up dealing with lots of chronic pain and chronic fatigue, and although you may happen across one by chance it's generally easier to be referred directly.

The split between mental and physical health is totally false. We are whole bodies - can you imagine if we had 'physical health and liver health' and liver health was thought of by the general public as somehow being nothing to do with the rest of the body, and also carrying a stigma of not beng as 'real' as illness affecting the rest of the body? Yet this is what has happened to the massive excretory and neurological organ that is the brain.

All pain is a total body experience and if it is persistent then it needs a total body approach, and that includes making use of the neurology and hormonal release controlled by the brain.

Having said that, at 6 weeks I wouldn't count your pain as persistent yet (I know it must feel like it, cos back pain affects your body so much). But with the long covid, there are so many factors that need to be taken into account that I'd suggest a referral to a mental health physio sooner rather than later. You can always cancel it if it isn't needed by the time the appointment comes through.

And osteopaths - fine. But stay completely away from chiropractors - total charlatans. Google for Myles Power's YouTube on 'Chiropractic: Quackery Hiding in Plain Sight' and be horrified.

Just bought a Shakti mat. Lolz. Will update 😂I figured since my exercise capacity is limited then I need a broader range of tools to fix this...

Got a level 2 i.e. "medium difficulty"...

They currently have a 20% discount so I got it for just £55, and free shipping. Let's hope this works.

Is exercise physiotherapy a possibility, OP? I find it helpful - strength and cardio sessions tailored to my needs. Also had a very interesting assessment session today in which my trainer (who did my 90yo mother so much good when she was living at home) said that osteoarthritis is not the linear degeneration leading inevitably to knee or hip surgery that many GPs seem to think it is. It can't be cured, but exercise and diet will improve the flexibility of the joints. Which is much more encouraging than the two idiot doctors I've seen, who were both dismissive "Big deal, everyone over 40 gets it" and "You'll need surgery eventually."

Oooh I've just realise Shakti do a pillow too! If the mat works wonders I may get this too. Getting a bit carried away...

Why not go and see an Osteopath? They’ll fix it for you.

@Catsmere Thanks! I think osteoarthiritis is different from just age-related disc degeneration though?

@CinnamonTart I'm seeing one! Had 2 sessions so far and having the 3rd today. It helps a bit, temporarily, but definitely hasn't made it go away.

@ChristmasFluff Thanks for your response. I'm not sure a "mental health physio" will really help though, as the exercise intolerance experienced by people with Long COVID has biological origins. Lots of new research showing the muscles struggle to take in the oxygen from the blood, etc. If anything, a physio with a deep knowledge of post-viral illness and Long COVID would be ideal, but I don't think such a thing exists!

I'm none too sure what the difference is, tbh! Or indeed if there is much difference. It's inflammatory, I know that much, and different from rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune disorder (disease?).

Lots of important information on this thread about exercise, etc. I do feel a bit stuck. Exercise is excellent and helpful for pretty much every ailment and medical condition, except ME/CFS, or Long COVID which fits into the ME/CFS sub-type. Making myself sicker and crash to the point of not being able to get out of bed for several months, to resolve my back pain, obviously isn't an option.

I wish I could get fit - and I know the inactivity probably is one of the factors causing my pain. But besides some gentle strength training and very short walks throughout the day, I simply can't. So I'm going to have to tackle this in multiple ways.

It's quite a bind - moving too much exacerbates the pain, but so does not moving.

You mentioned having some lightweight dumbbells - have you ever done goblet squats? I do them, though I don't get nearly as close to the floor as what you see in instruction videos (and have a seat behind me, just in case).

She's probs referring to the strength program Stronglifts 5x5. It's very similar to what I do. You'd need to do it in a gym though as it's based around compound barbell lifts (squats/deadlift etc.

Thank you! So the exercises I am doing are mainly for the core, glutes and hip flexors. Things like: curl-ups, bird dog, planks, glute bridges, hip extensions(?), leg raises, etc.