To think someone MUST be profiting from private nurseries?

[SprinkleofSpringShowers]

Nursey saying that the free hours cripple them. My bill has gone down by £200 from £940 to £720 for the 15 free hours. My child is booked for 3 days/30 hours (not that he’s ever there 30 hours) I don’t really understand how they are struggling so much when any shortfall in the funding is just made up by parents.

The branch we use charges £73 a day now. They’ve open two new sites in the last year. Can’t be doing that badly can they?

Also think it’s really poor taste when they seem to pedal this image they’re struggling and the staff are likely paid NMW and the directors turn up in 2 year old Porsches.

Nah, what’s condescending is expecting sympathy from a client and loading emotion into what is primarily a business transaction that serves both parties well.

Your post also misses the point - nowhere do I undermine the efforts of the directors or business owners, I just don’t want to be manipulated by them.

@SprinkleofSpringShowers
how are you being manipulated by them? In one post you say it’s the manager talking about how difficult it is, so not the owner. Unless the owner is the manager.

And if you don’t want to listen to someone’s worries then tell them. Rather than belittling their emotions and acting like they are not allowed to raise concerns, because they are business owners and god forbid if business owners have financial problems.

@Eatdrinkbemerry because they are trying to influence me.

Thanks for the life advice - if you don’t want to read about it scroll on.

@SprinkleofSpringShowers only you know if you can be influenced. It’s not about not wanting to read about it. I am trying to point out not to make assumptions, which you have and not tarnish nursery business owners like some money grabbing industry that puts their staff through slave labour on a minimum wage. All because they drive ‘nice’ cars or have big houses.
like I already said, it’s insulting to all the hard work we put in to make our settings successful.

@Eatdrinkbemerry you’re projecting and making an awful lot of assumptions yourself. Most of which aren’t relevant to my OP. Absolutely nowhere have I said nursery owners shouldn’t profit, I have posted about my own interactions with the nursery I use.

Yes, my GS went to a nursery that is part of a chain. I'm guessing that the nursery managers are given a budget for their own nursery and have to manage the staff with that themselves, our manager was always moaning about how tight their budget was. But income will be skimmed off for the owners and nursery managers won't get a sniff of this.
Individual nurseries may be just breaking even but that takes no account of the income that is actually coming in.
My DD's nursery fees went up dramatically at the start of last year with virtually no notice, and the best qualified/paid staff moved on. We were left mainly with newly qualified or inexperienced staff and a couple of long-term older women who lived locally and would never move.

Do you have the same disdain for teachers and doctors arriving in new cars, or people driving to foodbanks to pick up their free food? Are they in poor taste too?

I can’t say I’ve ever had a teacher or someone who uses a foodbank, complain the money I pay doesn’t cover the service they provide and then climb into their 2 year old Porsche. Now I’ve answered that do you realise how utterly ridiculous that question was?

Have you ever seen the new cars parked in the school staff car park, or in hospital staff car parks? I don't suppose you've noticed the teachers or doctors striking for more money because their wages aren't enough, either, or complaining that the "government" (ie, us, taxpayers), don't fund the services well enough. You must walk around in blinkers.

DH recently bought a high-end 2nd hand car from a hospital consultant, as he had recently upgraded to a new car costing in excess of £150k. Don't suppose you remember the consultants striking for more money? https://www.england.nhs.uk/2023/10/nhs-publishes-data-following-junior-doctors-and-consultants-strike-2/

@usernamealreadytaken it’s a totally different relationship with an NHS doctor than it is a parent at a private nursery. It’s totally irrelevant. We may aswell bring the tooth fairy into the debate.

I disagree - we are paying for services and the NHS is notorious for waste, while complaining it doesn't have enough money and the staff aren't paid enough. It's not viewed as profit in the same way as a private company, but I for one am fed up with the level of waste and mismanagement, coupled with the constant demands for more money both on the overall and salary budgets. If doctors can afford Ferraris, they aren't poorly paid. Same goes for schools - staff are simultaneously underpaid yet able to drive new cars. Nothing to do with something which doesn't exist, although I suppose the allegory would be that the NHS being underfunded is akin to the tooth fairy - a lie which the naive believe.

I’m not going to get into that debate. But feel free to start a thread.

🥲☹️

MN all about capitalism, yet here you are, frothing at the mouth because someone is making more money than you.

My guess - based on what's happening with academies and in care system for instance - is that you are not talking to the right person.
If your nursery is part of chain, it's totally possible that the nursery manager is struggling with the budget and targets they have been given. They might not see the actual profit their own setting make, or theirs is small but adds up to all the other settings to make the system lucrative.

It's similar in any private company really. My own team is being squeezed with rising costs and decreased profitability, and yet our latest corporate financial report announced a 1+ billion operating profit...

But even using these figures based on a 1:3 ratio, for 20 children full time, that's a £2500 gross profit per week. (£13.50mw/3 children = £4.50 COST PER CHILD > £2.50 'profit per child per hour x 10 hours x 20 children x 5 days)

Split that up in a 1:5 ratio, with 20 children - (£2.70 cost per child > £4.30 'profit' per child per hour x 10 hours x 20 children x 5 days) is £4300 gross profit per week.

Let's split the difference to include some part timers, and some better paid staff, and you're left with £3400 PER WEEK to cover everything else except wages. Rent, heating, water, lighting, nappies if you're lucky enough to be provided them, food if you're lucky enough to have your DC fed.

Again, let's say parents don't pay for 2 weeks over Christmas and you're still looking at £170,000 to pay the bills, remember just for 20 full time kids. Add in the government subsidy, extra payments from parents for food, nappies, wraparound top ups. There's got to be some big bucks going somewhere...

Yes I think you’re spot on.

I know two nursery owners and one let it slip they took home 150k annually (large, private nursery) and the other who didn't see I was within earshot said they were about 40k off that but that was b/c ex-husband still got a payout b/c he helped start the nursery. Both seemed to be suggesting it wasn't a high wage for the work they do. Both drive luxury vehicles, though don't drive them to work.

I have a friend that worked for one of those nurseries and she earned pence over minimum wage the whole time, despite being deeply committed, in a senior role, not only having training but having done extra training in her own time, paid for by herself. She created some incredible programming with a local University for research around outdoor education in the early years, has been interviewed about her work and is an early literacy specialist. Truly could have run a much better centre with her eyes closed. Ended up leaving despite absolutely loving working with children, they just couldn't afford for her to stay in her role. She's now a higher band executive admin in higher education and misses working with children every day, but can now has food security for her two children. It's shocking what low wages we accept for predominantly female professions like nursery staff and health care assistants.

Who is BU, me or the nursery? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5081267-who-is-bu-me-or-the-nursery

Look at this thread - OP is paying for nursery while on holiday (fine) but now they do not need the time away the nursery have said they cannot look after the kid but are happy to keep the money. I imagine they have rented out the spot to someone else so are being paid twice or worse have less staff on that day, possibly agency so saving money. Obviously not saving money if full time but it assuming they're dastardly. They are definitely profiting.

The UK has very high adult:child ratios by international standards. If you want those, you will have to pay for them.

Totally agree op.

It's a massive scam in plain sight.

Pretending they need a raffle to raise money for "the children", whilst someone is making a huge profit.

To be clear, they are entitled to make a big profit imo. Just stop pretending they're not.

I work as a cleaner for someone who owns a private nursery and it certainly seems like they are profiting from it, massive house, luxury cars, very frequent holidays. I guess the money could come from elsewhere though.

My kids used to go to the nursery in question and I sometimes think I should start charging the owner for my holidays etc and see if she’s happy to pay (I wouldn’t really because that’s not how I run my business!)
I was always amazed how the nursery acts like it’s a charity, constantly fundraising and asking for donations of things when the owner is living a life most of the families using them could only dream of!

I'm fine with paying.

What I'm not fine with, is them then pretending, it's poorly funded and needs contributions/fundraisers.

Exactly!

and yes - they are always asking for donations of books and resources.

I totally agree with you @anon4net when you write
".....It's shocking what low wages we accept for predominantly female professions like nursery staff and health care assistants."

The carers of the young, the old, the sick and the infirm.
The most vulnerable of us humans.

Yet people in jobs such as marketing and advertising, sales etc are highly paid in comparison.

Our values are skewed