To have pushed back at my boss

[spanieleyes22]

So my job involves getting people to follow certain procedures. We need certain information and it's my job to gather it and get people to give us what we need. Some had been chasing for this document. Had emailed once and got a very angry reply back. I messaged back and gently said that it was just something we needed even if he hadn't had to provide it in previous years. Another angry email from
Him. So I escalated it to my managers. I have 2 of them. Not sure why I need 2 but ....! Neither replied. So this afternoon I put it in the chat. What to so etc just leave it or: one manager was wfh the other was in the office and just to say she had been chatting and laughing really loudly for the whole day: literally since the morning at 845 she did not take a breath. So loud. Chatting with other managers. My team were all super busy and had our heads down: she said I need to email again. So I said at this stage I don't think there's any point it would be better coming from a manager. No she said: you need to email him. I pushed back again and said I don't feel comfortable emailing and chasing again. I've had 2 angry emails: it's better for a manager to step in. Then she comes over to me and starts berating me and saying why won't you send that email. And I said again that I didn't want to engage with him again that he was getting angry and if it came from a manager it would
Have more weight. I said why won't you do it? I was getting upset at this point: she said no I'm not doing it you have to. So I said fine whatever you say. It's fine. I was upset at this point and she knew it. She spent the rest of the afternoon laughing and chatting as she had been all day. Didn't see if I was ok. Basically ignored me. Wibu

The first time he got angry, I would have replied CCing in your managers.

I rarely get my manager to step in, I'd just resend emails regardless of angry emails back. Sometimes I tell my manager I will copy them in if I really feel it helps but I feel I should be able to get what I need without having to go to a manager.
That being said your manager sounds like a bit of a dick. I manage a large team and understand sometimes a managers clout can help alot and if a team member said they needed the support I would do it, within reason.
What do you want to happen now. Do you want to complain about your manager? Can you?

Ah I don't think I will. She is what I would call "a tough cookie" and would make mincemeat of me tbh. She's v confrontational. Just for background on Tues we had a team meeting and the managers were asking each of us how we were getting on etc and I said I was feeling v overwhelmed - a team member left in March and is not being replaced - his work was supposedly divided out but in reality it's ended up nearly all shared between me and another guy. So she was saying oh you must ask for help if you're overwhelmed. But no help was forthcoming nothing more said about it. So on Thursday at 4 I realized I wasn't going to make a deadline of 10am today so I messaged both of them and said I had been overwhelmed with other tasks- mostly doing the guy who left's work - and wasn't going to make the 10am
Deadline but I would
Do my best to get it done by lunchtime. The other manager messaged back
And basically blamed me
Saying it was too late in the day now and that she was going to have to log on early and do my work for me. That made me feel like shit .so I said I would
Do my best and would most likely have it all done by 12. Everyone's work was due by 10
So she would have plenty to work on while I was finishing I wasn't holding her up. anyway nothing more said about it. She logged on about 10 mins early but didn't do any of my work. She didn't say anything to me the whole day actually. I just got on with it and got it all done by about 12. So I guess I was stressed and it was galling listening to other manager screaming laugjing and chatting all day. When she knew how busy I was and that I had asked for help. The rest of the team seem to not engage with the managers at all. So I guess I was feeling a bit vulnerable and don't want to get another angry email . I felt I had gone as far as I could and another email from me would just enrage him and not help the situation . Basically he wasn't going to listen to me. He wanted to know who had said he had to do this and he needed to speak to them and who was making these rules etc etc

YANBU I would step in if this was anyone from my team

I would send the email again, and if he wants to know who says he has to do whatever it is, give him your bosses details. Oh and of course CC. her on the email, so that she knows you've done so.

Am awake worrying. Am thinking I should catch up on my work over the weekend. There won't be any help coming and I'm very behind. I don't want to send the email though. It's a matter of principal now!

Any more advice. Should I have just kept my mouth shut

i think rather than emailing you could call the person you want the information from

Your boss sounds terrible. I manage people and my main job as a manager is to support them, especially when dealing with difficult customers.
You didn't do anything wrong so please don't beat yourself up.

Exactly this! As usual first response nails it.

After the first request, the reminder should have been ccd to your line manager and his. No reply again, another nudge including their managers and so on.

Sorry you're finding it so tough; I think you need to find a way to have a conversation about the bigger issues to do with workload. Don't work this weekend and please try not to worry.

On this specific incident, I think whether or not anyone agrees with her that she should step in, it's not a good look to push back repeatedly. I think in your shoes I would likely have done

Me: can you email
Her: you send another
Me: I've send two, are you sure?
Her: yes, send another

And at that point I would have left it, rather than pushed again. Even if fruitless, better that than antagonise your boss. You then could have sent and email copying her in saying "I've double checked with xxx (on copy) and we do need you to do this, so please send it".

I feel very sorry for you. That's really poor management (I'm a manager of a team of 8)

Forget the specific issue. The wider issue is your two managers.

Don't do any work over the weekend. Do plan a conversation for Monday with them both, where you clearly set out your workload concerns and what you need.

Be very clear.

It's their job to manage this situation.

If they don't listen or are not positive, you need to escalate it.

In the meantime, decide the remit of your job and only do that. Keep emailing updates on your situation. If they raise issues about work completion, refer them to the emails.

If nothing improves, it's time to leave.

About the particular situation, I'd cc in your manager in future and leave it at that (after chasing twice). I wouldn't continue to follow up and I wouldn't ask them to step in.

Try not to think too much about it over the weekend 💐

They sound horrible as a manager, sorry you have to deal with them.

But yes I'd have just sent another email, I have to chase people all the time and sending a third email isn't out of the question.

She sounds a nightmare.

I think you need to go full on professional and put emotions aside.

Unachievable deadlines? Flag, in writing and in meetings
In team meetings discuss workload vs your capacity and be very explicit
Every extra task “please confirm that you want me to take x on but are aware that will mean i wont be able to look at y”
Send the email and say to angry man - if you have any further questions about why this information is needed please contact: (insert manager details)

Those are my suggestions.

Hi

Is it possible you are getting things a bit out of proportion. I am on the other side a contractot who has to be chased for various documents. I see the work I do ehich is quite responsible as the important thing and the papersork as secondary.

What would be the effect of not getting a response? Could you just not put on the file chased twice. I find the chases that work best for me are the sorry to be a complete pain as I know you are busy but I really need this...

Take care.

You sound like a PITA to deal with, honestly.

And OP's real problem isn't the person she's chasing, it's her inept and unsupportive management.

On the specific issue, IMO unless the angry third party was abusive in their email, that was a situation that is an ordinary part of your job to deal with, not something that it was appropriate to escalate to a manager.

On the wider issue, your manager does sound crap!

No, don’t catch up on work at weekends.

So if your job has a major compliance element then tenacity is going to be an essential component. I'd arrange a 1:1 to talk about the workload issue.

Was your manager really 'screaming' in the other office?

Please don’t work over the weekend, this will then be expected of you each and every time you’ve fallen behind, which by the sounds of it, isn’t your fault.

Neither of them sound supportive but with regards to the email, I would just send it and do as others have suggested, cc the manager.

Going forward, be firm with the fact that you now have extra responsibilities since your colleague left. Has there been any talk of a replacement?

Just email the guy again and this time copy in the two managers. If he gives a rude reply then forward it back to the managers if he didn't reply all.

Nothing else you can do.

Fuck that.

You plan your work into timed chunks (on Monday!) to demonstrate that not all deadlines can be met. Then you book a 1:1 and use the list to demonstrate the problem and explain the impact on your wellbeing.

Then you ask your manager to go through your list with you and agree priorities I.e. do we agree that task 1,2 & 3 are most important? Yes? Then tasks 4, 5 & 6 need an adjusted deadline, reassigned, or dropped.

You give them binary choices about which work you do and use their reaction to gauge whether you need to start looking for another job. You don't do all.the work for free. Why would they recruit someone amd pay them if you do?

OP, absolutely do not work on the weekend. Your employer has placed you in an impossible situation and the best responds is to let that situation burn as a result. Ultimately it's just work and unless you are something like a doctor or a firefigher, nobody is going to die if you can't finish your work. Furthermore, if you end up trying to meet impossible standards you will only burn out, which will hurt you far more than it will hurt your employer.

How is the workplace overall? Is there a lot of turnover? Are people unhappy or burned out? From what you describe, I would not be surprised if this is the case. It sounds like poor management all around.

I think the best think you can do is to work within your limits, ignore everything else, polish up your resume and start job hunting. You deserve better than this and I think you know that.

This. Catch your breath OP. Lagging paperwork is so not worth panicking over. If the culture is shite or even just doesn't suit you, start looking around for something else to do with your one precious life.

I am not sure what the relevance of hearing your manager laughing and chatting with other managers has to do with your situation though unless you are implying she wasn't getting her own workload done. She may well have been.

I agree with another poster when they ask what happens if the person doesn't send the required info. What is the consequence? Does it mean they aren't licenced to do what they do, aren't covered by insurance etc? If there is no consequence mark the file as requested twice and rudely refused.

With regard to having aa workload to great to deal with email both your managers and ask for an urgent meeting to address redistribution of work or the resetting of deadlines to enable the work to be done within a realistic timescale.

With the next email set out any consequence of their non compliance or state if you are not able to comply please can you let (manager) know why you are unable to?

This way you have emailed as per your manager but you gave placed the onus on the recipient to let the manager know direct if they aren't going to send what's needed.

You sound a bit feeble. She's your manager, not your mum. You'll do better at work if you bring your superiors solutions rather than problems.