To think the tax office is a joke?

[PassingStranger]

Why is everything so crap? Over an hour hanging on the phone to the tax office earlier then gave up.
How can you keep people waiting that long?
They don't tell you how long the queue is either.
Just the same boring repetitive message all the time!!

It's disgusting.
What if you can't hang on forever?
They also got rid of local tax offices and built houses instead.

You could actually go to your local tax office but no they shut them down.
If they want people to pay tax, don't make it such an ordeal to get through and take on more staff?

I agree. I need to phone them next week (my record says I haven't paid NI for the last 6 years. I have). I'm waiting until I've got a couple of hours free 😡

Ring them first thing or last thing. During the day takes an age.

If they’re understaffed due to government restrictions on recruitment this is the natural outcome. Spare a thought for the poor souls struggling with unmanageable workloads, constantly dragged from one priority to another and prevented from doing a professional and satisfying job.
If we want efficient public services, they must be properly resourced. Year on year budget cuts and below inflation pay adjustments encouraging experienced staff to leave gives you inexperienced and slower staff trying to deal with complex tax issues. No-one is happy with taxation mistakes, but the system is complex and requires well trained and well resourced administration.

It'd be great to have the tax offices reopened. I found it so useful when I was self employed. First tax return was daunting! Massive form with so many pages. I was nervous about doing it wrong so turned up to the tax office, took my numbered paper slip, and waited my turn. Had to wait a while but that's fair enough. They were so helpful.

That’s if you can even get to the hold queue. It takes some kind of sorcery to navigate the menu in a way that doesn’t have you instantly referred to the website and cut off.

It's a diabolical service whose responsible for it.

Quick to send out letters but don't pick up the phone.
There are tons of complaints online.

And this is where the oh it's better for all of its online that lie falls flat . people were conned it to doing unpaid admin and work for free whilst sorting out their own stuff.
Bring back people to deal with issues and problems can be got through a lot easier.

Even worse they want to close for three months from the 12th June.

I worked for HM Customs & Excise which then merged with Inland Revenue to form HMRC for 27 years. I was made redundant in 2022 when my local office finally closed.
Instead of being situated in nearly every major city in the UK I think there are now approx 16 regional offices in the UK and I doubt many of them have the old drop in enquiry centres that we used to have.

There will be a massive skill shortage as for decades HMRC did not recruit tax specialists, in an office of 100s I was one of the youngest for most of my career, I'm now in my 50's.

The movement to contact centres did have heavy recruitment but all these civil servants were taught were call scrips, no in depth knowledge of the multitude of taxes that HMRC administer. Constant fire fighting and moving priorities on the back of whatever political pressures are the favourite of the day lead to demotivated staff who want to do their best but are constricted by 'call stats' and pressure from management to simply improve the 'call stats' rather than solving issues and providing actual customer service.

Also a massive issue is the devaluation of the role of a civil servant. Back in the day when I was a visiting vat officer I was paid a decent amount as an Officer. These days a 'compliance officer' as they're now known would be paid around £28,000. Those working on taking calls in a contact centre as assistant officers are paid minimal wage. Minimal wage! For a high pressured role where you gets dogs abuse from the public day in day out, pressure from your management, and have no say in how things can be improved, no ownership over your tasks etc. it's honestly a shit show.

To have a good effective tax system we need to invest in our Civil Servants, get the right people for the job, train and invest in them, pay them appropriately, encourage professional development. Then you get people who are proud of what they do and want to serve their public to the best of their ability.

I've not looked back, except with relief, since I was made redundant (with a huge payout, imagine the cost of that for the 10,000+ staff paid off on recent years due to the restructuring to regional centres, not to mention all the experience lost!)

I think that idea was revoked as it was a non starter amid public outcry.

@Alex Drake excellent post. I work in one of the new regional centres. Our specialist team has had our resource cut by 40%, with more cuts to follow. No plan to replace staff either. And the work just keeps coming. I was gutted not to be made redundant when the move to regional centres happened.

What's coming your way sounds like hell on earth..I genuinely feel for people like yourself that have to put up with more being heaped upon on an already broken system.

I really really feel for you all. One of my friends is in the DWP and the situation is just about the same there. It is absolutely shocking how this current government have devalued the work that Civil Servants do. Major investment is needed and needed now.

I got through in 50 minutes a couple of months ago. I thought that was bad enough but my partner tried a few weeks ago and they weren’t even taking calls every time he tried. He finally got through to them after over an hour a few days ago.

Once you’re through to them, I always find them really helpful and knowledgeable, it’s just getting through.

If you think that's bad, try dealing with the probate office. You will end up in the seventh circle of hell.

I have used online chat a few times (if that's an option with your query)...🤔

They should never have closed local offices should they?

I have a tax issue that is not my fault, a very long story and am being charged tax on interest and need this put right.

After I called them in November 2023 to correct this they asked me to write in. My solicitor wrote to the tax office on 15 January 2024, and sent a reminder in March 2024. I could see from my gov.uk account that the first letter was 'in progress'. I phoned them in April (60 minute wait) spoke to someone who has referred it to the 'technical team'. I phoned them yesterday for an update on when I can expect a reply - 50 minute wait - (there's a reason why they need to resolve promptly this as another party needs to pay this tax - and their estate will be soon in probate), and I was told that the technical team are dealing with letters dated 6 December 2023 and a provisional date for me to expect a reply is 7 November 2024.

There is just nothing I can do. The feeling of despair is immense.

A very close family member works for HMRC as does their partner. Over the winter period they were seconded onto the self assessment team to help with the additional work. They are both hardworking and knowledgeable. The advice I was given was to try and get a name and an email address if you can and correspond that way ( I haven't succeeded in that).

They backtracked on this

you need to call at 8am when they open

When you do eventually get through to someone, they’re great and usually manage to sort out your issue or pass you to someone who can relatively quickly. There just aren’t enough of them.
As for the automated/online element, it’s clearly not working. If it was then getting things like UTRs should be pretty much instant, likewise fixing incorrect tax codes and actually getting overpaid tax back. It’s also extremely slow to update with income/NI details etc.

This is what people wanted.

You can't bitch and moan about civil service wages, 'gold plated' pensions, public spending and still expect a decent service.

Labour and the Tories absolutely fucking destroyed public services, made these places toxic to work in, spent millions and millions on consultants to tell them how to do their own jobs better (cheaper) and then shut all the offices. Those well trained and experienced staff who were laid off have probably been welcomed into the private sector with much higher pay and perks because of their skills and knowledge.

It's disgusting. But please remember those staff really are doing their very best to help.

Update. Ring at 8am. Managed to get through. Need to get through the choices first. Ask to speak to an advisor.
You'll get cut off if you get the menu questions wrong.

Waited 49 minutes yesterday to finally get through. When I asked a question she said she needed to another screen put me on hold and then cut me off! Called back (another 35 minutes) and spoke to someone else far more knowledgeable and assisted with my enquiry. After he finished he explained that the previous agent was new (he could tell by the sign-in). Always take a name at the start of your call, they are less likely to cut you off if your query is too difficult for them.

YANBU I also spent nearly an hour on hold to them yesterday. After claiming for tax relief and being told I would get a reply by 07/05/24 which I didn’t get. It’s also ridiculous that the only way to contact them directly about specific personal details is over the phone rather than having a live chat/email option. It’s obviously a funding issue like all public services.

Omg it drives me nuts. I spent over 2 hours of my life on hold to HMRC last month.

The first- after an hour, I had to hang up as I ran out of time and had finished my lunch break and had to go back to work.

The second- I actually let the phone continue ringing/on hold while I saw my patients. (It was very quiet so they couldn’t hear). It was lucky timing that I had closed the door and went back to my phone and they had finally picked up