"Ridiculous" to expect cutlery and crockery to be clean

[SisMichael]

Hi Forum,

Newbie here (2nd thread ever). Sorry to post something that might be trivial!

MumsNet is a broad church so I think I the answer to this one will put me right one way or the other.

I am not the tidiest person but I insist on clean (I know many will say these 2 go together and I can't disagree).

Mum lives with me and I care for her - she has a few medical conditions which means clean is actually critical for us.

Family member has just called me ridiculous for insisting on cutlery, crockery and pans being truly clean after dishwashing - sadly, we don't have a dishwasher due to space.

He says this because I spend time re-washing pans with dried on carrot and broccoli, cutlery with small specks of food dried on, dishes still smelling of salmon, teaspoons with the remnants of the tea or coffee they have been used to stir (there are other examples) all after he has washed them and they have dried.

I don't go looking for these things - I find them when putting away dry dishes/pots/cutlery because he does not do it (perhaps he might do it once in a week).

The implication in his words is that I am somehow abnormal for insisting on what I consider to be a basic level of clean. I am certainly not perfect, far from it in fact, but I thought this sort of thing was something all normal adults expect?

I am beginning to wonder if I am actually nuts!

Please tell me - AIBU???

Next time he eats out, question whether he would be happy to receive a dirty plate, a dirty fork that had been in someone else's mouth. He may double down and say he wouldn't but that'd be a lie.

He’s in the very small minority of the population I would think.

Juggle the new kitchen & get a dishwasher. He just doesn't care.

You are not wrong, OP. Just a guess, but is this a brother or an uncle of yours, feeling a tad guilty about you doing all the caring? Their anger over your "perfectionism" may be projection.

You are not being unreasonable at all. When my parents were going through chemotherapy I was fairly paranoid about the washing up, work surfaces, light switches . . . anything that they might touch really!

Even in normal times I would expect the washing up to be done properly ~ we didn't have a dishwasher but it's quite normal, obviously, to return anything to the washing up bowl which has visible food on it.

If I was given dirty tableware and/or cutlery in a restaurant I would return it ~ why wouldn't we have the same standards at home?

Best wishes, OP ~ sounds like you are doing a fantastic job looking after your DM in difficult circumstances 💐

CoffeeBeansGalore - You have no idea about the mental gymnastics I have been doing trying to wedge a slimline dishwasher in somewhere, even if it has to go on the sodding roof. I think you're right, he just does not care.

toomuchfaff - That is exactly how I see it. When I explain that a spoon that does not have any visible dried food on it might not actually be clean (in terms of bacteria etc) but that a spoon where there is actually visible dried food on it is DEFINITELY not clean, I am met with a blank look. Mindboggling.

Rec0veringAcademic - It is actually a brother I am referring to, well picked up. Tried to keep it vague in case he ever happens upon this thread and recognizes the situation and the way I write but, hey, it might actually help matters if he did. I have wondered if there is an element of guilt here but there needn't be because he actually does help out with her care in other ways that matters to mum and me (and I have told him before on more than one occasion how much I do value his input). The annoying thing is that, tiring though it may be, I actually don't mind re-washing things if it means they are actually clean and mum is kept safe (and away from the NHS at a time of NHS collapse) - what really gets on my wick is the comments suggesting that I am odd for not tolerating a bit of dried food on washed items!

KnitnNatterAuntie - What a gorgeous comment - thank you! You do what you have to for your folks I suppose and mum has been an absolutely gorgeous mum to us all our lives, we really were very lucky as we had a difficult childhood otherwise. Interestingly, mum is slightly immunosuppressed through medication she takes for one of her medical conditions which is why I keep an eagle eye on the cleanliness thing - I totally get your paranoia when your parents were on chemo (mum's situation is not quite as serious).

Encouraging responses, MumsNet, thank you!

@SisMichael Is there anywhere near you that offers kitchen design?
I think years ago B&Q used to do it free of charge if you were looking at one of their kitchens. Someone who does it all the time may be able to come up with a solution.

Not unreasonable it’s dried food which means it will harbour bacteria and mold if left uncleaned and given that it’s stuff that goes into our mouths or contains the food that will go into our mouths it’s certainly not unreasonable to expect them to be clean.

Be wary you do still need to rinse things before putting them into a dishwasher otherwise you will have the same scenario

Good grief, he sounds an utter slob! How disgusting. Even without the medical issue, anyone can get ill from food scraps left on plates and pans.

There are only two of us in our household and to be honest we rarely generate enough washing up to make a dishwasher viable. It's easy enough to wash up as you go along - and to do it properly.

Is this for real? Who would consider pots & cutlery with bits of dried food on them clean?

Of course they are not clean

CoffeeBeansGalore - I have just spent this entire afternoon doing exactly that - consulting with various kitchen brands and their in-house designers to have a chat about what can be achieved. 1 or 2 showed promise so fingers crossed!

Abbyant - the bacteria/mould aspect is the bit that actually worries me most, especially because mum is on a medication that causes her to be immunosuppressed (she has Rheumatoid Arthritis). I have actually told him as plainly as that that this is what makes me re-wash things. He still thinks I am being over the top. If the kids are not old enough to make sure things are OK if I ever get ill like this, lord help me if it falls to my sibs 😐

Stormyweathr - good point, but I was hoping I could use the opportunity of the appliance being new to tell him (and perhaps show him in the product literature) that things should be rinsed before putting them in to the dishwasher. Might have a better chance getting the moon on a stick though....

TonTonMacoute - The first time I explained it to him (after watching him do it some 5 times or so), I suspect I had a look of 'are you crazy?' on my face as, like you, I thought this was a feature of being a normal well-adjusted adult even without the medical bits and bobs. But, no no, I am ridiculous for expecting dishes/cutlery/pots with absolutely zero evidence of food on them!

DecoratingDiva - What is even worse is that he has previously suggested that his friends and colleagues think I am a little much for expecting this apparently super-human standard of cleanliness. Not sure I believe him tbh.

Keep a couple of dirty plates and serve his dinner off them then hand him a dirty fork.

It's ok after all. Isn't it? So how can he mind?

I think a dishwasher will help you as things usually come out pretty clean. Yes, you have to scrape your plate very thoroughly beforehand but we don't actually rinse plates unless they're covered in thick sauce, and we generally don't have problems. If anyone starts getting too lazy and putting in plates with chunks of food on them, the dishwasher gets blocked up, which is a massive pain in the arse to sort out, so there's a big incentive not to let that happen.

In the meantime, have you tried offering him some food with a plate, knife and fork that have visible bits of old food stuck to them, to test if he really does think it doesn't matter?