Sorry, not sorry, but wfh really is much easier

[Jeannie88]

I know it's become the norm, especially post covid, but do those who wfh realise how much easier their lives are?

Sorry, but I have found it a bit pathetic and embarrassing that there has been a big defiance of 'going into office' once a fortnight to be such an horrific ordeal?

Don't you all realise how fortunate you are? No commute, time at home to do things those of us have to do after a day of being on our feet, all frontline and retail etc then look after our children?

Sp my point from.personal experience. We are a group of 6 friends (f) and go out regularly together. When we have been to midweek gigs, comedy nights, meal, the 4 who wfh joke how they can roll out of bed and be online within minutes to show present, then have breakfast and just work at their own pace and even during teams meeting they can sit back and contribute what they have to.

Then, the 2 of us who have to get up at 6am, dress for work, ready to drive so sensible of alcohol intake the night before and buy ourselves soft drinks in rounds or even drive and give lifts. Then do a full intensive day with full on human interaction and check e mails on the evening when we get the time to do so.

Of course childcare issues come into this. We who don't wfh have to take our DC to breakfast club or childminder then go on to work, the 3 of the 4 who have DC drop them off at school and rush back having been seen to log on early but not really working as getting them ready.

Ok so my observation and opinions based on this. I guess all the moaning on MN about having to go into the office (which really isn't so hard is it?) had incited me to raise this point.

Oh and I do have DP who wfh and he totally agrees with me. He's hardworking and doesn't do the slob thing, but agrees, in his own words. 'It's a piece of piss compared to going to the office and even that was so easy compared to your job'.

So please those who have the privilege of wfh stop moaning! Honestly, how would the world work if everyone wfh? It wouldn't.

I work remotely and go in to the office as required. As a project manager my calendar is fully booked and I am lucky if I can get some lunch or a toilet break while WFH. I am extremely productive and if anything over-worked. Also exact 9am to 5pm is rarely followed and I am often at my desk till 6 pm and also frequently have to log back in later in the evening. So it really depends on the job, not all ppl who work from home have such an easy relaxed time. Often ppl who work outside the home think those who work from home are relaxing or taking it easy. My DH used to initially think that I was having a chilled time at home till he stayed at home one day and realised that I was in the study all day and hadn’t emerged out except for some rushed toilet breaks in between calls. When he is at home, he is a Doctor, he is relaxing, watching tv etc. so he assumed I would be relaxing and maybe doing chores between my work day but there is no time for that.

I do know some people who work from home like ppl in software development etc who have tasks assigned to them with fixed time periods, like debug this issue or write out code for this by a given date/day. Then they plan their own time and depending on how fast they are they sometimes get things done quickly and have some free time. They might also work unsociable hours or prefer to work at night to complete tasks which need concentration etc. They aren’t involved in too many meetings etc so how they plan their time is their own business, this does not apply to all jobs which are WFH. So making assumptions that all those who work from home are lying in bed, sipping coffee and doing house chores while pretending to work is just nonsense!

Have we had "I'm soooo much more productive and efficient, working from home", yet?

I work in business consulting and one of the areas we provide services and research in is productivity. We find very, very few scenarios where people WFHing are as productive as they are in the office, and yet almost unwaveringly people are convinced of the opposite.

There will be a tidal wave of back-to-the-office diktats in the coming years; this is already underway in the US where I do a lot of work as companies are starting to say enough is enough.

I'm sure there will be responses along the lines of 'people won't accept jobs in the office so the employer will have to back down' but as momentum builds for a return to office working there will be fewer options and more impetus to return.

I've never considered this point , first time I've seen it raised in all the wfh debates.

I'm 'knocking on' so don't have a career to build so not really concerned what wfh 2 days a week means to career prospects.

I imagine going into the office is a huge advantage over wfh if trying to raise your profile and get noticed.

We can argue about what we do as individuals, but the fact is wfh IS seen as a soft, lazy option by I lot of senior management, and office goers ARE seen in a more positive light.

What is your point?

WFH and hybrid working is indeed a good thing for employees.

Some jobs can't be done from home, so this won't be available to everyone.

Those are just facts...

If you envy people who can WFH, nothing is stopping you from looking for a new job that offer hybrid or home working options.

Nobody is 'moaning'.

I have a long term health condition and home working allows me to stay in employment.

For many disabled people, carers and single parents WFH is a lifeline because it free the time that would be spent commuting to do something else.

I use this additional time to manage my chronic pain better and do the exercises that keep my muscles and joints mobile.

I am able to do more work at home that I would in our small, noisy office, crumbling office space...

@SofiaSoFar
'Have we had "I'm soooo much more productive and efficient, working from home", yet?I work in business consulting and one of the areas we provide services and research in is productivity. We find very, very few scenarios where people WFHing are as productive as they are in the office, and yet almost unwaveringly people are convinced of the opposite.There will be a tidal wave of back-to-the-office diktats in the coming years; this is already underway in the US where I do a lot of work as companies are starting to say enough is enough.'

You are obviously in the wrong job if you peddle that type of nonsense to your clients...

Unless they signed a contract which guaranteed that their role would always be entirely home based, they were foolish to make a major life choice on that basis.

Even if that job was always going to be WFH, people change jobs quite frequently these days.

Sorry OP, but you are the one who is moaning here, and you do sound jealous of your friends who can WFH. Why not look at a career change so you can stop resenting your friends who can do mid-week drinking if that's important to you?

We have indeed, because some of us know this due to having measurable data. I don't doubt you may have seen differently, but this is because generalising when it comes to remote working is a terrible idea. There is no one size fits all.

I can't speak for the US, but the UK is a society with a significant skills shortage and not enough workers in general. On these threads we invariably hear from people assuring us that we'll all be back in soon enough, but nobody ever manages to back that up.

In particular, that claim doesn't deal with the fact that the public sector was already enforcing hybrid in some parts throughout the 2010s as a cost saving measure. The current government likes the skiving woke from home schtick, but it could easily enough change into entitled civil servants expecting the taxpayer to fund their offices and heating for jobs that could be done in the house. The fact is, workspaces for all your employees costs.

No real horse in the race here, incidentally, because I don't actually have an office and do a role that's so niche my employer had no choice but to recruit from a very wide area geographically, long before covid.

True

only people who don’t WFH have this idea that all people who WFH are moving the touchpad to appear online on Teams whilst lazying in bed. I was far less productive and strict with my time when I went to the office.

Well I have been allowed to carry on working ( smug) from home because they are more than happy with my productivity, surprised at the amount of positive feedback they got about me from the new recruits , and I have key skills

So generalise away - it's coming across as rather bitter / jealous

Yes sone take the piss

I once sat behind someone who spent hours online shopping from the office
And in front of someone who never shut up , just gossiped the whole time , loudly
And the ones who disappear for lunch and come back sometime before hometime

So yes people can piss take in the office too

It depends on the person and their personality, but if you're so envious of those who WFH why don't you consider a career change?

Well its certainly easier for me. I'm in my 50s, in a senior position, know my job inside out and benefit from the uninterrupted time to concentrate, as well as all the work/life balance amd financial benefits you rightly point out. My family respect my job and I have a home office in which I'm not disturbed.
However, if I were in my 20s, working in isolation in my bedroom or at the kitchen table in a house share, or I had a family who thought WFH meant availability for extra domestic responsibilities; or I was trying to learn my role without access to the informal in person observation and support you get in an office; or trying to develop my career with no opportunities to network or become visible to my seniors; or had a stressful customer facing role, where I was subject to abuse or emotional trauma, and had to listen to that in my home with no team around me to off load; then I imagine I'd find it a great deal harder.

And just to add, if people are finding it easier, isn't that an excellent thing? What possible benefit to anyone is it that people's lives are harder than they need be? A well rested, happy work force who don't find life a relentless slog is surely more positive all round.

Sounds like your friends are taking the piss so maybe take it up with them instead of having a blanket “wfh people moaning” attitude?
Laughing at your friends because they have to wake up at 6am to go to difficult, demanding jobs where they’re helping vulnerable people - which you said your friends did - is not ok.

I would not be able to do my job as productively being in the office. I am on back to back MSTeams calls for most of the day. It’s simply not possible to do this in the noisey office. I cannot have the confidential and commercially sensitive conversations I need to have in these meetings when I’m in the office. I am paid to work 9am - 5.30pm with an hour lunchbreak. In reality, I work 8am - 6pm and rarely take a lunchbreak. I would not be able to work these additional hours if I was in the office as I would need to factor in the commute. My work get so much more out of me by me working from home.

it doesn’t work for everyone though. I do not agree with having children at home whilst working from home, and my DD is in morning/after school club for this reason. Some people who WFH completely take the piss.

WFH is the best!
Dropped the kids off, back home before 9am and eating toast while listening to radio 4 in my pjs.
Been working since 8am... honest.

How small minded and short sighted.

In my sector more organisations are going further with wfh and flexible working.

My own workplace has only few desks but lots of meeting space. They don't want people coming in to sit at desk. They come in if they want to meet. Apart from that they all work remotely.

We are considering moving to a 4 day week. I attended a seminar on 4 day weeks recently and there were more than 200 other organisations taking part.

Lots of employers have recognised that staff wellbeing, flexibility, and good culture supports productivity, recruitment and retention

If staff can't effectively work unless at a desk being supervised 9-5 the. You have the wrong managers and the wrong staff.

There is very little about America working culture to admire.

There is very little about America working culture to admire.

Agree.

I find it interesting how often in these threads we see criticism of remote working where someone does some perceived appeal to an authoritative outsider. Your experiences might say one thing, but this outside figure says different. Usually it's a male partner, as with OP. America is a new one!

It is! The days do go quickly because I spend most of it completely frazzled and stressed lol. But at the time I just needed any wage coming in and this was the first role I got. I’ve been looking at other roles and admin based stuff. More 9-5pm and not as hands on.

Your clients must be all small, local businesses.
Most large and even medium size companies work with people from across the globe anyway.. doesn't make a difference whether they're at home or in the office!

You sound very bitter and jealous. If you are unhappy perhaps find a career wfh.
My dh has worked from home for 14 years. He runs two businesses and never switches off. Still, we feel we have a wonderful balance because he’s not missed out on our kids and he can spend his break times or “thinking through an issue” mowing the lawn or doing diy.
It works for us. Maybe find something that works for you.

I think the point is that the jobs office workers are being forced into an office to do can be done from home. We have seen it work effectively. So why enforce the expense and rigmarole of performative attendance? It's total nonsense. If your job truly requires in person attendance, that's different.

For example, my job is mostly analysing data and writing reports. I don't need to speak to anyone or see anyone 90% of my week. The person I interact with most is based in New York. In the old days, I would spend most of my time in the office with my headphones on anyway, with occasional small talk with the people on my bank of desks. It costs me £30 a day in train fares for the privilege, a lack of sleep, a strong desire to eat junk food I'd never normally touch around 3pm, and no energy or desire to go to the gym or enjoy my hobbies or family time in the evening. I get home, eat, do a few chores and collapse into bed. No thanks.

Have you considered a career change?

TBF I hated a 9am meeting when I did work in the office too. Or even worse the 8am whole team brief on a Monday 😫

I WFH, I absolutely know how fortunate I am. I live on a farm in a very rural community. I've had commutes up to 2.5hrs each way, which nearly killed me. But mostly about 1 hour in the car, (no public transport) to get to any job I would like.

I am on less money than I could be on in an office, because to get a WFH position I took a bit of a step down. But right now you actually could not pay me to go back. I would like a hybrid situation where I had a day in the office per week.

But this really suits. Get up, DH brings DS to nursery. I do a few little jobs like dishwasher/ put on some washing/ hoover. At lunch I can hang out washing etc those sort of little things. I finish on the button of 5pm and go collect DS.

I work with a LOT of men, and a lot of those won't put their cameras on.

We have meetings where it's mandatory, and some where it's not. I prefer not having it on, not because of what I'm trying to hide in the background (literally nothing except the fact the room is being redone over weekends so it's a tip), but because I struggle to control my face. When people are being dense or lazy or irritating, I can control my tone (mostly) but it's written all over my face. And sadly, I work with many muppets (thankfully not in my team, but in collaboration).

I'm getting better at it, but I genuinely just have one of those faces that shows my thoughts. Much better sometimes not to be seen.

Theres good and bad points.
I like not having to travel in every day, Ilike the flexibility around the kids, and I like that I can get more work done in a day.
There's negatives too though- lack of socialisation, days become dull there's nothing to dress up for, I feel less healthy because I move less, everything with the kids falls to me- if they're off sick etc I have to work around them because it's easier for me than my partner. My biggest problem is housework, when I was in the office the house was tidy because we weren't there- now there's constant mess that I struggle to have time to keep up with. It's also really difficult to switch off from work because it's always there- when I worked in the office I closed my laptop at the end of the day and that was me done.

Honestly OP your posts come across as very immature. You have some lazy friends who aren't doing their jobs properly. That doesn't mean that people who WFH generally have an easy time of it. I know lots of people who work in retail or in office jobs who don't do much at all most of the time, who dither about having coffees and chatting and moaning when they actually have to deal with a customer. Your inability to recognise that many people who WFH work just as long hours as you do with no breaks is quite frankly extremely naive, and your responses to individual posters - oh, I didn't mean you, you're obviously amazing etc - shows you still think that you're right.

Why didn't you just post that your lazy friends were missing you off rather than writing about people WFH in general?