Wealth is draining out of the UK

[Ifmenhadperiods]

I was at an event with business people the other week. One of the high net worths said to me that no wealthy foreigner he knows will stay in the UK long term. He is local but says anyone with foreign connections and wealth is fleeing abroad - and taking their businesses with them. That is the chat around his dinner table in Holland Park.

One indisputable piece of evidence I guess is the massive slump in companies that list in the UK. We also have so few pension funds investing in UK business. Personally I don’t blame them: my own shares ISA is invested in the US and has grown by 30% in the last year, a figure UK shares just can’t compete with. Most of our FTSE top companies are in legacy industries like fossil fuels while elsewhere they’re in tech and innovation as well
as traditional companies.

Several friends have left here and gone to the US in the last decade and they say the lifestyle is excellent (and they earn far more, working in tech).

I have also spoken to friend’s older DC (6th formers) and some who have had offers from Oxford and Cambridge are rejecting them in favour of Ivy League schools.

Apparently Ivy leagues are FAR better at getting students to think about their careers from day one. Oxbridge is amazing at teaching you the subject in an academically rigorous way, but Ivy leagues pair you up with business investors if you do a degree such as economics. They have fees assistance for households earning up to 400k US dollars. Here you can’t get student loans if you have more than about £50k in household income.
I know the fees are higher there but they also have more scholarships in the US.

We are about to tax private schools. A popular policy with the public. But again, apparently the wealthy foreigners who can afford this tax are worried it will shake out the middle class Brits they want their kids to go to school with! They don’t just want their kids to go to school with foreign and British super elites. They’re quite fond of the eccentric Brits.

It seems every way you turn, there’s little incentive to make money especially with the cliff edge in income taxation. And the worst thing is it’s understandable because of the massive levels of wage stagnation we have to subsidise through working tax credits (no real wage growth for 20 years!).

We don’t want immigrants but we have no one to pay for our massive welfare bill which is made up mostly of a triple locked state pension and grossly inefficient health system.

If you’re lucky enough to have a bit of spare cash, forget moving up the property ladder, owning a holiday home or a rental (tax hell lies in all those paths).

Can anyone shake me out of this pessimism? Of course I know we are lucky not to be in Syria or Afghanistan or Gaza. But this is about the decline of the UK rather than where we are compared to truly volatile or oppressive countries. I genuinely don’t want to emigrate but fear we - along with anyone who was once comfortable but never wealthy - are going to have a very uncomfortable retirement - if I make it that far - and our DCs will face a future in a country that will continue to get poorer, with the entrepreneurial class deserting us.

If you had worked your arse off sacrificing family life to get where you are, how would you feel about your money being taken and given to someone who choses not to work?

We aren't referring to millionaires and billionaires having their money taken off them and given to someone not working?

Look at the low wages in uk which has funded millionaires and billionaires making more money on the backs of those on NMW, Sainsbury has a CEO earning over £10million each year - as an example

Justin King never seemed to be sacrificing family life either, always did the school run and at family events

Those on PAYE have never been so taxed in their lives. Whilst state dependency and welfare has never been so generous. All under a Tory government. That is why people are fucking off and getting better salaries and work life balances elsewhere.

Plenty of people chose not to work and choose life on benefits. Do you not think high earners (amongst others) fund this? How much more do you think you can tax them without them leaving? And what would your plan be when they've gone?

Absolutely this.

Do you know plenty of people choosing not to work or is this just something you have read about in the daily mail?

Wombat15

"Do you know plenty of people choosing not to work or is this just something you have read about in the daily mail?"

I know plenty unfortunately. You'll have to point me in the direction of the daily mail article you're referring to though.

Plenty of people chose not to work and choose life on benefits. Do you not think high earners (amongst others) fund this? How much more do you think you can tax them without them leaving? And what would your plan be when they've gone?

The poorest 10% of households paid on average 42% of their income in tax in 2015/16. The richest 10% of households however paid on average just 34.3% of their income in tax

These figures haven't changed, in fact they have been squeezed further.

Its the working poor that are being taken for a ride with disparity of x 300 in wages at times between those at the bottom and the CEO https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/pay-gap-at-uks-largest-companies-widens/#:~:text=Data%20from%20the%20High%20Pay,to%201%20recorded%20in%202021.

unemployed aren't the problem you'll be looking at approx £1.86 billion cost to uk whereas tax avoidance is £1.4 billion. The later is totally on purpose the former will be a combination

It's ironic that for people here taxed so highly and putting so much into the system, you'd think they'd be even slightly appreciated- but no it's the opposite! Who will people take their frustration out on when these individuals are no longer here and enjoying life somewhere they're appreciated?

The top centiles cover the majority of the tax burden

In the U.K. they are not paying less than other comparable countries

So lots of your friends and aquaintances are choosing to live on £90 a week?

Each other I guess, poorer without that tax contribution and angrier

It's ironic that for people here taxed so highly and putting so much into the system, you'd think they'd be even slightly appreciated- but no it's the opposite! Who will people take their frustration out on when these individuals are no longer here and enjoying life somewhere they're appreciated?

if you are waving goodbye to 42% of your wages why would you be appreciative of people waving goodbye to 32%?

Those on PAYE have never been so taxed in their lives. Whilst state dependency and welfare has never been so generous. All under a Tory government. That is why people are fucking off and getting better salaries and work life balances elsewhere.

surely the ageing population is fuelling much of the growth in the welfare state? State pension, attendance allowance etc

surely the ageing population is fuelling much of the growth in the welfare state? State pension, attendance allowance etc

pension alone is 55%

pensioners - sorry

Yes it is which is why the they can all bugger off posts are madness

What about the earners paying 55%? How should they feel?

@FuckTheClubUp I don’t know 🤷‍♀️

What about the earners paying 55%? How should they feel?

what are you talking about? Which country?

Ok it's 45% but with national insurance 53%. Then there's corporation tax..

people don't pay 45% on all there wages/pay, its on a sliding scale and starts at 20% under £37k then raises to 40% up to £125k when PA has been withdrawn

NI reduces to 2% after £50k

people are not paying 45% on all there wages or 55%

but unfortunately the poorer you're paid the high % you pay in taxes as shown above, how do you think those paying 42% of their wages feel when there gross pay is less than someone on £125k

All you’ve done is waste your own time. Why are you @‘ing me as if it’s going to ruin my evening lol weird

I am still not voting Labour, I am still sure things will be just as bad under Labour. For the first time I have considered letting my children board if they want to stay here in a couple of years when they are older so we can leave and go elsewhere.

@Ifmenhadperiods Lots of friends around here have gone abroad or live here part of the year and spend majority of their time abroad. A lot of families around where I am have gone to Dubai as well - I suspect tax reasons. I don't think many people are sticking around. I agree re investments. Our SIPPs are invested now in US stocks and have 4x since Q4.
I do feel that the UK aims to punish hardworking people. There are never any rewards for ALL working people - like in Scandinavian countries for example. Quality of life here is very very poor! Imagine now buying a bottle of ketchup for £4! Who would have thought we'd be here!

So at least shop strategically. Amazon avoids tax, opposes unions, is automating to limit its workforce and abuses its market dominance. Don’t shop there. It is pretty simple.