To think Richard III clearly murdered the princes in the tower?

[Ppejfhfhrhhfhf]

It seems quite clear to me that Richard III betrayed his nephews, murdered them and usurped their crown.

Whenever I see discussions about it on social media or wherever, people always come on and try to claim he’s a misrepresented soul who’d never have done that. If you’re someone who believes him innocent, what do you think happened to the princes?

Would also be very interested if anyone knowledgeable knows what contemporary sources were saying at the time. What did the public think had happened to their King (Edward V)?

And I still can't understand how anyone can think he did murder them!! Everyone has different views.

Why didn't he open an investigation?

What makes you think he didn't have an investigation? Henry VII had all Richards records destroyed from my readings.

There's nothing to refer to - only rumours and heresay during the Tudor reign.

You'd think Henry VII would have had an investigation since his wife is the sister of the missing boys, if Richard were the prime suspect (and couldn't defend himself as he's dead and all his written records destroyed)..........

I confess, Wikipedia.

"Richard also failed to open any investigation into the matter, which would have been in his interest if he was not responsible for the deaths of his nephews."

Alison Weir’s book on Katherine Swynford is shoddy history. You’re better off just reading Katherine and knowing it’s fiction.

Hm. Are all of Alison Weir’s books shoddy history?

I don’t believe so, although over time she has turned into a bit of an industry. But the Katherine Swynford book tries to bend the very slender amount of documented history to fit the events of the novel, and is very odd. A much better book covering the life of Katherine Swynford was published around the same time which I would recommend over it.
https://www.waterstones.com/book/katherine-swynford/jeannette-lucraft/9780752455976

The novel about Anne of Cleves is a bit loco. Had a secret child by her true love, Henry rejected her because he could tell she'd had a baby...

I think the blurring that occurs when a historian is also publishing fiction is unhelpful.

I think he probably didn't, but we can never know for sure unless some new contemporary writing by someone very close to the main players comes to light.

He had already taken over from Edward on the grounds that Edward was illegitimate (which may or may not have been true, but he had the word of a bishop, and people seem to have accepted it at the time).

Henry, on the other hand, was trying to strengthen his claim to the throne by marrying Elizabeth of York, which would only really work if she was legitimate. But if she was legitimate, so would her brothers have been. He needed them to be legitimate, but no longer around. And he needed to shift the blame for whatever happened to them to someone who was no longer around to defend himself. As far as I'm aware, nobody accused Richard of having done anything to them during his lifetime - it was assumed that they were alive and just being kept out of the public eye.

I think it's possible that Edward died of natural causes at some point during his seclusion - there are records of him having had visits from a doctor. As for the younger Richard, if anyone killed him I think it was almost certainly someone acting on behalf of Henry.

People did accuse Richard during his lifetime. Rumours that he’d killed them were rife. He lost support because of it. Henry VII gained support because of it.

If Richard III could have produced the princes, he would have. He might not have lost the Battle of Bosworth if he’d been able to produce the princes alive and well.

Great, I’ll have to get that.

I agree totally. The "evidence" that he was not involved is highly doubtful (to put it charitably) and I know of no serious Medieval historian who believes he did not order the boys' deaths.

Having said that, I also think that if he had won Bosworth he would have turned out to be a far better King than Henry VII did.

Thank you will see if on kindle!

I’ve always been interested in Katherine Sanford ever since reading Seton’s book 40+ years ago!

And nurses sending telegrams for patients….

Did you hear about the man who got the the Pearly Gates and Peter says “You can ask one question and I’ll tell you the truth” The man asks “Who killed JFK?” Peter says “Lee Harvey Oswald” The man says “Wow-it goes THIS high!”