To put that I don’t want to be treated by PAs in my ELCS birth plan?

[BPquestion]

I have recently been following the news, and ‘med Twitter’ about the growing problem of physicians’ associates. It seems there’s an issue with many of them performing outside of their limits of capability, expertise and knowledge. I also understand that they are not currently regulated by a professional body.

I recently read of a PA taking on an anaesthetic role, and another taking on a surgery role.

I am having an ELCS soon. Would I BU to put in the birth plan that I don’t want any PA to be involved in any part of the surgery itself?

@BPquestion
that’s exactly what @Neurodiversitydoctor was saying. That’s a burr hole procedure.

Yes, and they are drilling these holes in your skull while unregulated and performing it with no formal training… alarming!

I am pleased to see in recent weeks this issue is gaining a lot more traction on the media and finally some important conversations are taking place about the role of PAs.

@BPquestion watching the anger on Twitter about the posters calling PAs Physicians and Specialists . Seems to have pissed off all doctors this time !

@BPquestion of course they are formally trained or do you only count that to occur in a university undergrad med degree. Your FY docs are not competent to do burr holes out of med school. They are trained on the job by experienced clinicians the same as PA. In fact a massive amount of skilled training occurs ‘on the job’ for all doctors as well as other healthcare professions. There will be assessment of that persons competence and underlying pathophysiology taught as well. Don’t be ridiculous. I am not saying I support PA progression in all NHS specialties or all parts of medical role. But neither should you, a person who is not understanding of healthcare, be trying to scaremonger. By all means share concerns but to continue perpetuating myth around professionals not being trained is not helpful. You are suggesting that anyone could walk in and just start drilling. That is not the case.

@Calamitousness but as a patient am I told that the person drilling into my skull isn't a doctor with a 5 year degree, 2 years foundation jobs and many many years and hard exams in speciality training ? Or are those things not really needed to drill into my skull and you can do it after a 2 year v simple degree and a few years training ? Both things can't be true. You either need the long hard training, or you don't. If not, then why can't doctors become PAs ? They'd earn more and not be used as ward monkeys (which I believe was supposed to be the job of the new assistants).

why can't doctors become PAs
Yes, good question. Sure they are overqualified for the job but tha's no bar in other professions. A teacher is allowed to work as a TA for example.
Must be to do with the bizarre fact that PAs earn more than doctors. Imagine if schools started recruiting TAs at twice the salary of teachers and allowed them to teach classes instead of teachers.

But neither should you, a person who is not understanding of healthcare, be trying to scaremonger.

@Calamitousness, you have absolutely no idea of my career or my qualifications. What a strange comment for you to make. You have (perhaps intentionally) misunderstood the purpose of this thread. Absolutely nothing to do with scaremongering

I’m not ‘perpetuating any myths’ about PAs’ training. PAs themselves are saying they have no formal training (‘zero training’) in neurosurgery or neurology during the course.

Do you need 10 years of rotational training, expensive exams and lots of stress to do a surgery. Or not. Because if not, lots of doctors can stop now, become PAs and work happily as surgeons without any of the extra crap.

I don’t think birth plans actually need to be adhered to in any way do they? Medical need and hospital procedure will always take precedence so yeah talk to them but I don’t think the birth plan would be the best place to put it if you 100% are sure you don’t want something.

I would not be surprised if the government and NHS managers see PAs as a way of mitigating industrial action. Not being in the doctor's union and not having a qualification that is recognised abroad must make them quite appealing to the government. Who don't have any particular interest in how their clinical practice compares.

You can't count 3 years spent studying something else that isn't medicine. That is ridiculous

There are graduates who later decide they want to do medicine - they do a 4 year condensed medical degrees. What PAs are taught is not medicine and they get a crash course in assisting doctors - which is what their role is designed to do.

Scope creep - where people do things they are not trained to do - occurs due to strain on the system and you end up with higher rates of errors than those who are trained and experienced and can work things out from first principles.

If a global leading medical doctor with decades of experience can question things they see - that tells you all you need to know about PAs working beyond their scope

The government knows this anyway and are now going to create a fast track 4 year medical degree. That has it's own issues but at least it will be a full curriculum!

If a PA enjoys medicine and wants to practice - they can apply for medical school.

Indeed but it is patients that suffer. I will not support my taxes providing sub-par care. The equivalent is a paralegal defending you in court. Well beyond their depth

This is concerning….

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