To want to praise the police - London sword attack

[boozeclues]

I have just watched the footage of some very young police officers who detained the man in London today wielding a sword. Not only had he already killed a child, he was determine to kill anyone he met.

The video I watched is here: https://news.sky.com/video/share-13126428

These are mainly very young officers, not wearing much protection (e.g. their whole heads and faces are exposed), and not many of the people in the video can be more than 20 to 30 years old.

Truly heroic IMO. They all deserve a medal. The police bashing in this country also has to stop, we are not America, most of our police force is full of people who want to protect the public, bad management, lack of funding and politics aside.

I am also truly very sad for the young boy who lost his life today and his family, I hope they know the whole country is mourning their loss and want to support them.

The police are simply amazing and that's why you live in a lawless estate?

What do you mean?

This.

Yes they deserve medals.

We also need to continue to look carefully at the culture within the police force which has allowed/cultivated a series of failings.

I don't think we should praise them too much or let this one incident improve our perception of them. Bad people can sometimes do the right thing, but it doesn't stop them being bad people. Wayne Couzens sometimes arrested criminals and sometimes protected the public. That didn't stop him abducting and murdering sometone though. He was still a bad person.

We should remember to judge the police by how they behave as a group at all times, not just cherry pick occasional incidents where they just get on with doing a job that can be difficult at times. (It's the same with other groups like nurses, Lucy Letby for instance helped some patients some of the time, but was convicted recently for some abhorrent offences.)

FFS!! Can we not just have one thread where we can discuss how brave all those police officers were yesterday.

No-one is denying the truly horrific things that other individual officers have done but this thread is about the courage shown yesterday.

If you want to have a go at the police for whatever reason then go and find another thread where that is being discussed. Or you can start one of your own if you so wish.

What those officers did yesterday was truly heroic. I doubt any of the 'police-bashers' would last 2 minutes doing that job. The information coming out today about the injuries some have suffered is horrific.

It is utterly heartbreaking that a young boy lost his life in such shocking and disgusting circumstances and all he was doing was leaving his house to go to school.

@Dotjones so by your logic, all nurses are likely child killers?

Yes they were all brave. He was tasered 3 times. I'm not sure why people have to single out one officer. It seems very sexist.

Why is your friend telling you information about the injuries suffered by a victim of crime?

Whilst I think the officers who handled this incident are brave it doesn't change my opinion of the police overall. They're incompetent, they lie and cover up their mistakes and some officers I have had dealings with have been downright rude its like they think the uniform makes them better than the public they're supposed to be serving. I would never trust them because they have more skeletons in their closet than a cemetary and they never admit or take accountability for their fuck ups they talk bullshit about lessons being learned without admitting fault. They also wrote the book on racism, sexism, homophobia and any other form of prejudice.

So how should they have done it?

Presumably you’re a serving officer or police trainer with experience of these situations and speak with expertise?

if not shut up. You know nothing.

it’s like the Nicola Bulley case, and the “paedophile hunters”. All armchair experts who know exactly what the police are, aren’t, should or shouldn’t be doing.

if you’re so great, join up and prove it. You run toward and armed murderer and do it better.

You’ve said exactly what I was thinking. The police were amazing!

Truly heroic IMO. They all deserve a medal. The police bashing in this country also has to stop, we are not America, most of our police force is full of people who want to protect the public, bad management, lack of funding and politics aside.

You’re a part of the problem if you think the police has a ‘few bad apples’. They have many terrible officers and enablers- racism, misogyny, sexual abuse, domestic violence, and murder - we would be stupid and complicit to take our eyes off them. And you can blame them for overshadowing the work of truly heroic officers who just want to protect us. Oh, and the bad ones are as bad as Americans, just without guns.
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Yesterday’s officers were truly heroic and I commend them for how well they handled the incident. I’m also sorry for the officers that were badly injured and the young man who was killed. I hope the officers and their families have excellent support to handle the aftermath of such a horrific incident.

I thought the same when watching the news last night. Yes there are some arseholes in the police and sometimes they get it wrong but most police officers are good people trying to do a difficult and sometimes dangerous job.
I felt sorry for the officer who got pulled into controversy over the openly Jewish' comment. He was in a very high pressure situation at the time and was trying to keep people and deal with someone who was determined to provoke a problem.

And that’s all you can think of when you read about a woman’s hideous murder?

Not her suffering? or the evil of people who could do that? Or the stress suffered by those having to deal with the aftermath? Or even why the hell we have such feeble defences against these gangs?

Just that an attending officer shouldn’t have spoken about it. God almighty.

FFS!! Can we not just have one thread where we can discuss how brave all those police officers were yesterday.

Start one.

This thread is about how you shouldn't criticise the police

I know it's not the point but these are not authentic katanas. it's been illegal to make katanas in Japan since the 1870s. anything made outside of Japan/not by a traditional swordsmith is not authentic. in this country it is illegal to carry these and other similar weapons unless you have a training license.

Don’t be ridiculous. Of course that’s not all I think about. I’m asking why that info which should be confidential is being shared. No the attending officer shouldn’t be speaking about it to friends. That’s what service / multidisciplinary team debriefs are for. It’s a disciplinary offence to share that kind of info with people that don’t need to know it. I don’t need to share my other thoughts and feelings about it to ask a simple fucking question so do one with your snidey shit.

They are brave and successfully detained him.
But YABU talking about them as if they are children. They are adult men who are police officers.

Well they shouldn't be discussing it, the victim should be respected not made the subject of gossip.

Adult Men?

So , please elaborate as to what you think they should have done ? You know , with your vast experience of highly fluid , stressed fast paced environments involving armed individuals who have already badly injured your colleagues ?

Do you know that these days , apart from the supervisory ranks , most officers on the street have less than 5 years service . Five years . I am a complete exception , but I've been the oldest in terms of service on my team for nearly 10 years now.

When you deal with an incident like that, it's not like bloody tv . It's highly fluid . It's unpredictable, and it's messy . Taser, whilst a really good bit of kit , is not infallible. I've known it to fail , quite a bit . Pava doesn't always work, and has a habit of incapacitating everyone including officers . Extendable baton works , but you have to get within his striking range which is highly dangerous.

So. He gets tasered and goes down, still in possession of that sword . Still got to get it off him ( I had a colleague stabbed twice in the calf trying to do just that with someone detained in the floor) The amount of adrenaline running is still going , and now you have to detain him safely without injury to him either . Of course it sounds confusing . It bloody well is , because it's real life, not the sodding Bill .

Some of those officers will still be in their probation. For some it may be the first really ( and I mean REALLY) serious incident in their service . And yet they still went forward despite knowing their colleagues had been hurt, and knowing the limitations of their kit .

The young teenager who was killed has been named as Daniel Anjorin who looks like a boy any of us would be proud to call our son. It is sad beyond words.
Without the bravery of our police there could have been even more killed.
RIP Daniel

Hopefully you understand that police officers are representative of society as that is where they are recruited from. Misogyny and racism do exist within policing, as they do within many organisations. Not all women will be unhappy with the service they have received and not all female police officers will have poor experiences.
It's really easy to generalise from the outside looking in when you are judging by what is reported via the media. There will be countless female victims that have also felt heard and supportive. Many female officers that are leading the changes. Ultimately front line officers leave the house every day with no certainty that they will return, emergency responders across the board are subjected to repeated trauma throughout their working lives. Would you do it?

I was a control and restraint trainer for many years for both the police, prison service and forensic environments. Yes I have disarmed individuals and I have been stabbed twice over a 30 year career.
so I’ll break it down: initial contact and use of tasers was good. There was hesitation about what to do next. What should have happened is the nearest officer who hadn’t deployed the taser should have disarmed the subject and restrained and then applied mechanical restraint(handcuffs). This part was delayed and the nearest officer had to be shoved and instructed by a colleague behind him. Not awful but it could have been a lot better. Tasers are not infallible and that hesitation could have allowed the subject to recover and become an instant threat.

Yes I was wondering what was happening as one police officer was shoving another towards him after the initial taser.

They were very brave (particularly the police woman who walked towards him and tasered him). She was so calm as she was radioing in at the same time as tasering. I sensed less hesitation from her than the others. It was a bit frantic afterwards. Understandable but I guess there is a protocol that needs to happen.