GSCE's from Year 9...how important is the streaming/set DC is in?

[InkyNight]

DC is in year 8. He'll start his GSCEs in Year 9. Currently, he's streamed in English (second set) and maths (top set).

I was comparing his progress reports from end of Year 7 to the latest cycle in Feb, year 8. He's dropped from mastery in some subjects to strong - including English, although his parents evening report was really nice.

It concerns me that he'll drop sets. Or end up in mediocre sets and be unmotivated/distracted - it doesn't take a lot.

But my main question is: how much do the sets matter to their long term results?

To me they mattered a lot. The top set had no misbehaving whatsoever and was geared up for the top grades.

In DDs school if you're not top set science, you have to do double, rather than triple award. You're not given the option to do triple unless you're top set.

That being said, some of DDs friends were in lower sets and they still did well enough.

Where are you? In the UK they don't start gcse until yr 10. They are in mixed ability classes and depending how well they are doing personally dictates higher or lower exam papers.

Must depend where in the UK you are. Where we are some schools start prepping for them in year 9.

My kids state school was/is set on ability from year 7.

Not exactly true. some schools in UK start GCSE in year 9. Or they start the GCSE science and maths syllabus in year 9.

Good point from @Dacadactyl above. How many science GCSEs does the school offer? Is he on track for 2 or 3?

The lower maths sets will be sitting the foundation paper where the highest grade you can get is a 5. Higher sets will be sitting the higher paper than goes up to grade 9. I've know students switch up to the higher paper at the beginning of year 11 and managed to more or less catch up but that is very challenging. The key point you need to find out is which sets are sitting which paper.

Ultimately you're probably stressing too much about things that don't matter. Two things matter about school: learning and credentials.

Learning: this is more about the child and what their home life and value of education is than what's going on at the school. Does the flame of curiousity still burn or has it been snuffed out. Plenty of 'top level' students cram for exams and forget everything immediately. For many (most?) student's, it's all just going through the motions.

Credentials: The kid just has to get good enough GCSEs to be able to take A-Levels and this goal is almost impossible not to achieve if he's already in the upper sets.

It’s really important as lower sets often sit foundation papers which limit the top grade that can be achieved, or double instead of triple science.

Having said that, there is no point in your dc being in a set that is not working at the appropriate level for them (whether that’s too high or too low).

At our state school, they make their GSCE choices now, and start in Year 9.

I can't imagine him going into the lower of the 5 sets - he's bright. So, that doesn't worry me. It's more if he slips into the great middle where so many kids misbehave and the others get the short straw

But there's nothing I can do, I guess. He'll get what they think he should get

Ofsted don’t like it as you’re not supposed to do GCSE over 3yrs, unless they are doing them all early. Neither do some uni’s

Well, it's considered the best school in the city, the results are the best in the county and the kids don't have problems going onto a leading state sixth form...so I guess you're not quite right.

My daughters school is an outstanding rated with GCSE and A level results in the top 10% for the country and they do theirs over 3 years.

For us this has really helped given them longer to understand the subjects reduced the stress and homework and meant she’s meeting her potential.

I was unsure initially as it means dropping a broader range early but seems to be working out.

I can't get my head around going into the exams knowing you can only get a 5 at most.

@Zanatdy Which universities exactly? My DD started hers in year 9 and went to Oxbridge. The only usual issues with universities are students who take a gap year before studying maths or students who don't taken FM if it's offered for a maths degree. Starting in year 9 is common place.

Since schools set in different ways you can't really compare. There can also be little difference between top of one set and bottom of the set above.

What do you mean?

For many people 4 or 5 is a big achievement.

I think it does matter which sets - not so much sets 1 and 2, where I don't think there is much difference in terms of behaviour or learning, and I'm not sure about set 3, but I would expect the lower sets to be detrimental. Mainly because my children have told me so. But they are constantly assessed and can be moved up throughout the year.

Yes, of course, but there will definitely be children being restricted, who might have achieved more. Children develop and mature at different rates - later bloomers, for want if a better phrase.

Utter nonsense! Clearly doesn’t bother ofsted at our outstanding school where GCSE’s have been done over three years for years, and I don’t really know how any university would know nor care - you don’t state the amount of years studied on an application 🙄

And how the hell will universities know whether you started your GCSE science curriculum in yr 9 or yr 10 then? Enlighten me.

Our ds moved from set 2 in maths to set 3 so that he could sit the intermediate paper rather than the higher one. That meant the highest grade he could achieve was a B (we’re in Wales).

It did his confidence the world of good and he got a B, if he’d have sat the higher paper I’m doubtful that he would have got a B.

He also opted to take double science rather than triple and got great grades, if he’d have had the extra curriculum to learn for the triple science syllabus I think he would have got more mediocre grades.

what’s best for one child isn’t best for another.

Plenty of schools start at the beginning of year nine. Supposedly to give them more time.
Officially though GCSE is two years

The mastery and strong things are fairly meaningless on their own though. Worrying that he will drop sets is assuming that everyone else in his set is still achieving mastery, which would be a big assumption.

If you're worried, email his teachers and say you've noticed the drop and are worried about where he sits in the group and whether he is in danger of moving down a group (and if so, what he needs to do to improve). Until then there's no point in worrying.

How on earth would a uni know one way or the other?

If you take an absolute worst class scenario of a failing school, understaffed, skint and with poor leadership, it still makes sense to actually focus on the borderline 4/5s to ensure that they get over the line, whilst the 7-9s are less of a concern; doesn't matter as much how many supply teachers or cover supervisors they have, they'll largely behave, study, attend revision sessions, do their homework and have the basic ability to get a secure passing grade as long as the syllabus is covered.

In the less stark situation of a normal school, targeting limited resources at the upper middle still makes sense both individually and as a cohort because it makes the most difference to each child and the school results (120 with Grades 5-6 is better for the collective than 45 with 5, 10 with 9s and everybody else on 4 and below) - and with that, it's also advantageous to always look for those who can be nudged not just over the line but into the higher groups and papers (for the few subjects that are still tiered) once they are secure in passing and it's clearly a realistic prospect.

So he's unlikely to be ignored or forgotten about - especially if he dumps any Y9 'I'm not going to do this subject next year so I don't care anymore' (normal for Y9), along with him being more likely to be in classes where the others have also chosen the subjects. Pressing for him to be moved up when he isn't ready won't help - but advocating for him when he is ready is fine. But give him and the staff a chance first.