How to help anxious self-sabotaging friend whose self-wroth depends on work success but can’t take the pace?

[Serengetti56]

Bit of a long title but hopefully gives a good picture!

My friend is one of those people who works her socks off, to the detriment of her relationships, mental and physical health, trying to be better than the best, before inevitably crashing and burning out and needing to take extended leave to recover and lick her wounds, berating herself that no matter how great it was, some element of her work was unsatisfactory. Soon afterwards, she looks for a new role, with an even higher level of pressure and responsibility and the cycle repeats itself. She’s just done this for the 4th time and I am just dreading how much this new job is going to take out of her.

The very idea of taking an ‘easier’ job is totally unacceptable to her. She hasn’t said this, but it seems to me as though she feels she isn’t good enough, and is looking for ever enhanced validation through work by taking on harder jobs and working herself into the grave trying to accomplish them to perfection.

I am genuinely worried for her physical and mental health, but she doesn’t take kindly to any attempts to talk about it or any suggestions that she is ‘not coping’.

I know there’s probably nothing much I can do, but interested to know if anyone here recognises this cycle of behaviour, have you or somebody you know managed to get past it - and how?

Thanks

Oh God that sounds like me only without the taking leave or collapsing from it all!!! I do exactly this. And yes it is about proving something and not feeling good enough. Though I'm not sure anyone in my life has noticed enough to write a Mumsnet post!

I'm not sure how to advise. For me I don't think any kind words or intervention would help. Until I've reached where I want you to be I won't stop. It definitely affects many aspects of my life negatively but when I've taken any time off, even a few days, I'm lost. I need the challenge of very challenging work.

Maybe just be there and be supportive when she needs you, when things go wrong and take that moment to gently remind her she's been there before and how she got there and suggest there might be an alternative.

If you want to keep the friendship I’d go with telling her that you don’t want to talk about work with her as she’s unwilling to make any changes and you can’t help her.

You can't help someone who won't help themselves and can't see the problem unfortunately. I'd find it very hard to watch someone self sabotage in this way. I had a friend with similar cycles of behaviour around relationships rather than work and I had to distance myself eventually as it started to affect my mental health to watch her self destruct

Even if she takes an easier job, you'll probably find she does the same thing. Employers love people like her and soon take advantage!

This was me when I was younger. Honestly I don't think anything a friend could have said would have made much of a difference. I worked in a very prestigious job and ran myself into the ground several times, I just didn't have the level of self belief that you need to thrive in my old field. You can't be her therapist, which is probably what she really needs, but you can do fun things with her and show that there is a life outside work. I do really value the friends I have who knew me then and are still friends with me now that I dgaf about work at all.

Thanks, I only wish I could do fun things with her and help her get a work / life balance. But she won’t! She won’t commit to anything social until the last minute, even if she does she still might cancel, or if she does turn up she will be late and arrive in a flap. She doesn’t pick up my calls, and she will voicenote me instead of calling me back. I think it’s a control thing.
Then there will inevitably come a time when the pressure lets up, she crashes, and I will be on the receiving end of lots of tears and outpourings and plans to go on holiday, take up yoga, get a dog, etc etc.
Then just as she starts to feel normal she up and puts herself back on the merry-go-round. It’s so frustrating to watch.

In what way is she actually your friend?

We’ve been friends since primary school. Grew up together, in many ways she’s like a sister to me. She’s been like this for the past 5 years, roughly around the time she turned 30. Didn’t seem to have this problem in her 20s. I just wish I could get the ‘old her’ back again as I miss her, but it’s like she’s in an abusive relationship with work and refuses to leave (I don’t mean stop work altogether obvs, but just stick with something sustainable).

Yes, that is a very astute point.

Could she be neurodivergent? I have a friend like this who recently got diagnosed with ADHD and finds the medication helps her focus and regulate her emotions a lot better.

Length is no indication of how good a friendship is.

Nothing you describe shows reciprocity. You suit her. She doesn’t value you beyond what you provide.

Agree with this, I'm neurodivergent and recognise this pattern far too well. It wasn't until my diagnosis that I hit the 'aha' moment. Currently trying to extricate myself into an easier job.

I do this to a certain extent, though for me it's not neurodiversity as mentioned above but trauma related to having a very difficult, cold and critical parent and it's taken me a long time too realise that the boom and bust dynamic is due to an internalised lack of self worth combined with a need for some kind of external validation and a hope that my parent might notice and be proud of me (they're not and they don't I finally realise).

You don't mention her background or childhood but could it be something like this impacting her?

TBH the behaviour you describe isn’t necessarily because of the job. I have a super high stress job which sometimes makes me close to burnout but I would never behave like this: it just isn’t necessary.

It sounds like she uses the job as a cover story for being an arsehole.

TBH the behaviour you describe isn’t necessarily because of the job.

I agree with this. I have people like this at work with junior admin roles that are not at all high pressure.

Quite a few of you are suggesting that it’s not the job it’s a ‘her’ issue, which I actually think might be right. I don’t think there is any trauma, but then if there is I might not know about it. Likewise ADHD.

Thanks for giving me pause and some possible new perspectives on this.

People get past this when they work on their OWN problems. This is not your responsibility to solve or advise on. Or even to have sleepless nights over. You could gently recommend counselling next time she asks for your moral support over anything. You could suggest she goes to the GP for a checkup over any underlying issues, bloods etc. you could ask her if there are any alternatives to her choices, if those choices are wearing her down. Ask her to examine her motivation.

But then...you have no more responsibility to make her life better, only responsibility to your own well being,which might include signing off from this drama

I also wonder whether it might be a good time to tell her...look I love and value you very much, regardless of your work success. That isn't important to me. You could earn tuppence and sell matches for all I care. What I do value is you, your company and character even when you are not "achieving". Don't underestimate how much you mean to your friends.

A subtle hint that work is not the be all and end all.

I often think parents need to say this to their children. I value you regardless of your achievements, singing dancing, pictures, tidying, nice appearance, or exam results or job. I like being with you.