Fake memories?

[Aydel]

I was chatting with DD2 the other day about bringing up children, specifically her and her sister when they were little. She said to me “You used to hit us all the time to make us behave.”

I was horrified - the only time I smacked either of them was DD1’s hand with the fish slice when I was cooking and she was trying to touch the frying pan. DD2 “remembers” me pulling down her trousers and smacking her bottom. She claims this happened at home and specifically when I picked her up from nursery on a few occasions. I said that it categorically didn’t happen. She just said “OK, if that’s what you say.”

She also said she used to scream and cry and refuse to go back to boarding school on a Sunday night. This also isn’t true! She was always quite happy about it, and slept all the way to school. It was never an issue.

She’s 23 now. I asked her what other “discipline” she remembered, and she remembered being taken home from a restaurant when she was about 4, because she kept getting down and running around (true). And also being made to clean her bedroom wall when she had scribbled on it (also true). But I’ve never hit either her or her sister! I asked her sister, and she said that neither I nor DH ever hit her or her sister, and confirmed that DD2 didn’t cry when she went back to school. Yet DD2 is adamant that this happened, and it makes me sad and worried.

Completely agree @wompwomp . And there is a big difference between someone being called as an expert researcher in memory and someone exonerating or excusing SA or other criminal behaviour.

That must hurt that she can think that of you.

I believe it is backed by science that our memories are not as good as we think.

Perhaps to reassure yourself, you can look online for examples.

Then at a future date you can have a discussion with her about it. On the good side she obviously feels close enough to you, and chill about it to even mention it. It doesn’t sound like she was bringing up stuff from the deepest darkest depths of her soul.

Is she the sort who identifies strongly with others eg characters in books, films etc. perhaps when she was very young she conflated a character and herself.

False memories are so bizarre. I have a really distinct memory of being in the backseat of my dads car, driving up to a house on fire surrounded by people holding hands and an old woman telling us to go away.
We’ve concluded we did indeed drive up to a bonfire and I must have caught some of the wicker man at a very early age.
Only you truly know if it did or didn’t happen OP, hopefully an ‘aha’ moment happens that could clear things up.

OP your conviction she CAN'T Possibly have cried when getting back to boarding school or just before leaving doesn't make me think you definitely never hit her another time and don't remember it because for you it wasn't a big deal but for her it was and she now remembers it as a more frequent thing

But OP has explained that for her the issue of corporal punishment was a big deal, so it’s not something she could have forgotten.

False memories are very much real. And whilst another poster has said to ignore Elizabeth Loftus contributions to psychology in the area of memory, I mean, it's rather impossible to. Her work and studies led to the leading theories and understanding of memory that we have today. Her work has been peer reviewed, studied and is still taught to students of psychology studying memory formation today. It's influenced ideal police interview procedure (not that the ideal is often actually followed) and the ideal interview procedure of victims.

There is of course a strong argument that to acknowledge false memories is to potentially dismiss or discredit true memories of abused children, which would be/ is terrible. But the blanket believe all victims ideal is in some ways equally so, when we know how easily influenced and shaped memory can be. Memory is not chronological , it is not cctv, it can be manipulated and sometimes wrong. Therefore it's not a black and white issue. I don't have the answers as to how we reconcile the need to believe victims whilst also acknowledging their memory may not be entirely accurate, and I'm sure I've over simplifying the issue.

Anyway- yanbu op. As others have said she may have amalgamated other memories/ dreams/ even expectations and perceived societal norms onto her memories. Try not to dwell and do your best not to let this negatory impact upon your relationship. I can see how much it must hurt to have your dd accuse you of such things but just as your sore it didn't happen, there's full potential that she too is sure. I'd let it go in the interest of harmony and continued good relationships

I believe you op.

I'd be worried that she'll go no contact and come up with all sorts of lies about you. You probably need to get to the bottom of this.

OP, as your DD seems to be quite open to talking about the smacking and crying to you, would it be possible to ask her some questions about it? Maybe tactfully ask what were the circumstances around the smacking; try to pin down things like surroundings, who was there, what it was all about, that sort of thing. You may find that this enables you to suddenly put two and two together, either as to why this memory arose or what actually she remembers.

Are people suggesting school beatings as in punishment?? Surely that’s highly unlikely as op DD school years would have been from 2006-2019 ish

I believe people can imagine these things but I'm more inclined to believe the person seen as the victim in these situations. Victim isn't the right word here, apologies OP.

I don't believe people go to boarding school and come out unscathed either. That isn't to make you feel bad. We only know now that they can be damaging for so many.

It's a tough one as I also am open to the possibility you're being unfairly demonised OP. As we don't know all personalities involved it's difficult to judge.

Someone from school saw me once as an adult. She told me I made school awful for her. I was in total shock. I am a kind, empathic and warm, loving adult. I abhor bullying and will always support the underdog. But I felt it was right to listen to her and hear her truth. I looked back and thought I must have contributed to this feeling she had somehow. I know many were really unkind and I recall thinking jeez I wasn't anywhere near like that. But I acknowledged what she said and I apologised profusely for any hurt I caused. I don't believe she just made it all up.

I don't know your daughter or you so it's difficult for us to know. If this is all made up drama then of course apologising isn't a good idea.

My dd is always saying how much she hated her school. (Not boarding school) Weirdly she never, ever told us while she was there, she is very confident and opinionated and no way would she have kept quiet if she wanted to move. Her brother was in a different school and we absolutely would have moved her there or elsewhere if we ever had a hint that she wasn't happy. It's very annoying op but it's unlikely that you will convince her that she is mistaken.

Close family member of mine fabricated a load of stuff that allegedly happened when we were kids. None of it happened. This person massively over exaggerated a couple of minor childhood pranks that were played on them. Hiding one of their toys or something like that . Claimed that they had suffered dreadful trauma.
Turns out this person had mental health problems/personality disorder

Which primarily manifest as a result of traumatic childhood experiences 🤷‍♀️

@Boomer55 not necessarily. My alcoholic father singled me out for verbal and emotional abuse and put my younger brother in a pedestal. My mother didn’t stick up for me but by the time he turned on my brother she was older and had more confidence and she stood up to him. Same parents very very different experiences. I had counselling to help me make sense of my low self esteem and he denied any issues said exactly what you are saying. Now the wheels are coming off for him and he’s singing a different tune. I don’t blame my parents because I dont think they were evil people at all. Just two people in crisis trying to hold their lives together. Unfortunately it’s quite hard to hold that space for your parents difficulties until you are older and have had a few crisis points yourself and you can view the past with compassion.

OP explained AFTER my post saying it was no big deal to her that she had a history with it...

Please stop quoting like some gotcha

Does make it hard for me to know it before making the comment though

OP, I believe you that you didn’t hit her 💐
Some people on here will break their neck to go against the OP. Baffling.

You can easily borrow someone else's memories, even by suggestion. Which is frightening.

I remember a couple of horrible encounters with my parents, that I doubt they would even recall. One-offs where they were goaded. To recall these accounts in front of some people without the disclaimer - these were one-offs - could make them out to be demons.

My sibling is like this. Remembers years of them acting a certain way or doing things so as not to upset our parents (specific examples I know 100% aren’t accurate). It only came out recently that they thought this way and it was so strange for us both that we didn’t agree on the facts. They genuinely believe their version, and I believe mine. In this case I believe that my sibling blames our parents a lot for what they look back on now as an unhappy childhood. But that was absolutely not my experience, or my perception of what my sibling experienced. All really strange.

This is interesting as my 6 year old has said things like “oh no if I don’t do xyz you will smack me” and has commented that we have smacked her in the past. We have NEVER smacked her however she started saying this after getting into Enid Blyton and listens to the audiobooks constantly and there is a lot of smacking/ slapping etc. in them. I’m now a bit worried she will have false memories like this too when she is older 😓

When they are very small kids, it can be common for them to make things up like that if they’re seen it on tv etc. It happened to me with my nephew the other day, he had told his teacher his me and his mummy had a gun and would shoot him.

I just sat him down and asked him why he had said it etc, not in an annoyed way, and he said he didn’t know, he saw it somewhere, so I explained that we shouldn’t say things that aren’t true as we might get into trouble etc and he said ok I’m sorry. I’m not saying it’s not possible to fabricate things like that when very young but you have to nip it in the bud and get to the bottom of it. I think sometimes kids say things to get a reaction.

But I think to Dc these things can feel more significant so '3 more bits of pasta' felt like 'eat or die!' to him. Sorry, that has made me chuckle, though. My DS thought that as a toddler I would put him in his room for up to an hour. I actually only did it a handful of times for a few minutes while I counted to 10 and took a breath!

I am the opposite. My childhood was full of neglect, depressed parent who was violent and a drinker.
I do t see it like that. I thought it was ok !but have since found out from older relatives how bad it was and that social services were involved.
I just have different memories of what happened.

@YoureALizardHarry11

Which primarily manifest as a result of traumatic childhood experiences 🤷‍♀️
Good grief. If kids hiding toys constitutes traumatic experiences humanity is doomed

This brought back a memory of my now adult dd who used to cower when she did something wrong as if I was going to hit her. I barely ever even got cross with her as she was a delightful child. I used to ask her what was up. Why she was doing that and she would stand normally again and say she didn't know why she did it. I'd never hit her. Munch had never hit her. She just had this weird cowering from a hit action. None of us had a clue why. It's quite distressing to see. We would chat about it and point out that we don't really get angry about normal child behaviour. She wasn't in trouble for anything.

No, I don’t mean kids hiding toys. It’s complex. It’s likely he did experience trauma and because of that became more sensitive to things, lied about things to get attention in the hope of being listened to, cared about. Things aren’t as simple as ‘’he lied about hiding toys’’ Good grief indeed! Things can happen as precursors to lying or being overly sensitive, and personality disorders do tend to happen as a result of your early experiences