i cannot believe this happened in the UK - prison sentence

[Willmafrockfit]

‘Indefensible’: UK prisoner jailed for 23 months killed himself after being held for 17 years | Sentencing | The Guardian

awful length of punishment

It is shocking that they scrapped IPP but not retrospectively for those already sentenced to it. Clearly need to review everyone still in prison, especially those for low level crimes

YANBU about IPP sentences; but in his case he was convicted of multiple offences and continued to act the same way while in prison. He also refused to engage with the parole service.
He needed some sort of intervention while in prison, imo. Just locking him up was never going to end well for him.

Hard to know really, isn't it? What is it you are shocked about? I work in a prison and can tell you we cant chuck em out soon enough! They have to give us reasons for keeping them longer than anticipated.

He should have been offered "purposeful activity" and rehabilitation. He probably missed out during the covid years, which would not have helped, but apart from that, I expect he was given opportunities. Most prisoners are. Not as many as we would like, probably, due to shortages in funding and staffing.

Suicide in prison is a terrible thing, and we do what we can to prevent it, but it is quite often due more to what is inside the prisoner than what is outside

They are doing

47 offences and convicted of 22 over a 17 year period. Well yes he was a threat to the general public wasn’t he. I don’t feel comfortable about the idea of IPP but it sounds like he didn’t actually engage with anything that would have helped him get out.

“Official figures published last week show 2,796 people given IPPs remain in prison today. Of those, 1,179 have never been released and 705 are more than 10 years beyond their original sentence.”

There should be a review of these prisoners to establish if they are really a risk to the public.

It shouldn’t be possible to stay in prison indefinitely, unless your crimes have been deemed so serious. Even only a handful of murderers have whole-life tariffs, so keeping hundreds of people in for a decade past their original (comparatively minor) sentence with no end-date seems bizarre.

I can remember reading about IIP years ago and was so shocked this was ever a thing and I don’t understand why it wasn’t fully repealed. 23 years does not reflect natural justice.

I have to admit when I read the article he wasn’t a sympathetic character: 41 offences violence and racism since he’s been in prison. But it doesn’t matter the punishment doesn’t fit the crime and it’s horrendous what happened to him.

Really volatile people who have no ability to control themselves are dangerous to everyone around them. I suspect he’d have been in prison and died in prison anyway. He’d have committed ever more serious offences, or been in and out his whole life.

Speculation obviously.
Doesn’t mean that type of sentence is ok, but I think it’s probably a technical distinction in his case.

There have been huge changes to IPPs that are retrospective. Including mandatory review periods for both suspension and termination of supervision, however it won't be granted if someone is continuing to commit offences, currently they need to have five consistent years in the community and be ten years into the sentence to be considered but there is no automatic termination. All decisions are made by the parole board following a review report and panel by probation.
The new changes will mean those serving an IPP sentence in the community are referred for review 3 years after their first release.
If a licence is not terminated at the three-year mark by the Parole Board because their risk of serious harm or reoffending , they will automatically terminate after a further two years if the offender is not recalled to prison in that time, so after five years in the community. The threshold for recall in an IPP is much higher than for other sentences due to the serious impact it has on the overall sentence.

@MidnightPatrol There should be a review of these prisoners to establish if they are really a risk to the public.

There has been

but they are all reviewed by the parole board, regualry.

One would assume he would have been released if the parole board thought he was fit to be.

What the whole country needs is a massive investment in mental health and social services in both prison and education. Until those in need can get fast and effective help to try and help them turn their lives around then I fear nothing will really change. We really are in crisis - being on a waiting list for over 18 months for a mental health referral is helping no one.

Better or increased mental health services wouldn't have made a difference in this case though

his sister thinks it would

The technically is the point though.

IPPs are a form of torture.

People in the past year have been given sentences for horrendous murders with minimum terms of 30 to 40 years.

Least they know if they live long enough they have a possibly of getting out of prison their late 60s to late 70s. (Unlikely with the average lifespan of prisoners.)

If you have an IPPs you don't even have that hope.

100% agree!
It starts early and now support / assessment for children is taking upto 3yrs . During this time we expect them to turn up to school and engage when their mental health / issues don't allow them to. They've slipped through the net, totally disengaged with authority/school. Behaviour deteriorates etc.

I don't know the figures but a LARGE proportion of the prison population have poor education/mental health issues.
What would their lives have been like if we targetted and managed these as they show and NOT yrs down the line when the damage is done.

I know obviously finances is the main issue but fighting fires which are small and manageable rather than waiting until they're are infernos means resources are not going to be there for early intervention, just for crisis levels.

Someone who has self isolated in a cell for 200 days and is no longer showering is not a mentally healthy person.

@aerkfjherf frustrating how the media portrays these situations without actual detail of the review process and how hard it actually is to keep someone in custody! If only they knew about ECSL and probation reset.. ... 😁

According to the article he had been a golden child then in his teen years started using drugs and it all went down hill.

it’s always drugs!

when are we going to do something about drug use in this country and the consequences to the individual and wider community?

IPPs are a form of torture

So is the PTSD and severe mental health problems I have to live with for the rest of my life as a victim of someone given an IPP sentence.

Definitely IPPs still in force need urgent reviews but reading the article it seems likely by this person's behaviour inside, had he been released he would have continued to offend . His sister is shouting out now but where was she through the 17 years he was imprisoned?

i think she was fighting his case - just had a reread. they were estranged, perhaps because of him assaulting their father, and his general behaviour.

but i doubt his sister holds much sway in these circumstances. = just reread, she is now campaigning.

@ElmerElmer

But he refused to engage. Refused and was continually abusive. Mental health were unable to work with him. They tried repeatedly

The prison tried everything to get him to engage with regime but he refused. He was trying to manipulate situations to get a transfer to a different prison but because of his behaviour in prison other prisons were refusing to take him