Tbe Turner prize. Help me understand

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/turner-prize-tate-britain-artist-rosie-cooper-benin-bronzes-b2533805.html

There is a nomination for a car covered in a crochet doily.
I could maybe understand the creativity if the artist had crochet it herself but she got someone else to do it while she takes the credit.
I know I'm going to sound like a complete idiot but me and my friends were talking about it last night but what is the point, if the artist hasn't made it themselves.

Did you ‘see’ the 2023 winner? It’s all bollocks.

When I wasted 5 minutes of my life looking at the 2023 winner, I noticed a book called ‘Why your 5 year old could not do that: Modern Art explained’. Having skim read the book my answer was ‘yes she could and has’.

Personally, my belief is the true skill of modern art is being able to make up complete bollox about why something is art.

Regardless of whether this is the sort of art you like or not (personally I don't) artists haven't made all their own work for centuries.

Renaissance artists had a workshop they supervised.
You can have fun in gallery guessing which Rubens are actually by Rubens and which he just filled in some of the faces. Sometimes he didn't even do that.
Bernini soon stopped doing all his sculptures.

The idea that a painting is by you and all your own work really only came about when tubes of paint were invented.

Modern art takes zero skill. Its all just rich, spoiled, untalented wankers putting a load of objects in a room and pontificating a lot of old bollocks about how its symbolic of something or other.

Not art. Just shit.

Art is subjective. It comes in a 1000 different forms and not everyone "gets" the nominations or the winner. (In fact, most people don't).

Art is meant to create a reaction, good or bad. The fact you have critiqued the car with the doily on it is a positive one. You're engaged with the image.

The artist has placed some meaning on the piece and whilst 99% of us don't understand what that might be, the "fun" is trying to figure it out. Often we are way off but it's fine.

You don't have to like it. You can say it's crap ir pointless. It's ok to say so. Most Turner entrants are quite vapid and annoying because it's self-indulgent but that's just me. Again, because I called it self-indulgent I've made a reaction so the piece gas achieved something.

Personally I don't understand it nor like it but that's my opinion. I'm into more tangible forms of arts like painting, photography, architecture and sculpture. I'm not a content creator myself but I like looking at art and deciding what I find appealing.

Sorry Typos

It's a ponzi scheme for the mega rich. Someone buys that doily/car for £2M and also buys all the works that artist ever made. Then the 'value' is locked. And 'collectors' can buy this stuff and hoard it as priceless treasure. It is a way of price fixing items owned by the mega rich, to make more money for the mega rich, basically.

Art is meant to create a reaction, good or bad. The fact you have critiqued the car with the doily on it is a positive one. You're engaged with the image

Sorry I think this is bullshit. No-one can say a Vermeer, for example, is bad. You can not like or it might not be to your personal taste but everyone viewing would surely agree that it took work and talent to produce. Modern art, not so much.

Some modern art is conceptual. Yoko Ono at the Tate currently is hugely interesting.

Emperor's very tired and threadbare garments.

I like it

They didn't make the car either.

I agree it seems a bit weird, I think it seems lazy. Like an artist should maybe have sculpted and crotcheted something themselves.

But I think the putting of the pieces together is the "art" in this case. Like a collage for example.

I don't like it myself. I don't find it pleasing to look at or intersting. But art is subjective and I clearly understand very little about it.

@KStockHERO Who decided Vermeer was any good? What is it about Vermeer's paintings that makes him stand apart from other artists of his time? Who anointed him a "Great?" I like Vermeer, but not everyone does.

Not everyone has "good taste" wtf that is! I don't like Yoko Ono's stuff but I like some Emin. I don't think even Turner was any good but I like Constable. My daughter, a budding photographer, hates Liebovitz but loves Moriyama. 🤷‍♀️

Art isn't just an image, it provokes an emotional reaction, it has a subjective meaning, it's a story, or a song, it's history and the future.

In the 18th Century Hogarth depicted scenes from taverns, streets, and gambling halls to tell stories of people poor or rich. A modern equivalent would be Cold War Steve who's photoshopped montages tell stories of political and societal ills in modern Britain. I think Cold War Steve is no less an artist than Hogarth just because he doesn't paint...I think the fact he stirs a reaction is enough to call it art. They are images that create emotions, positive or negative.

OP if you hadn't started this thread I was going to.

@VenetiaHallisWellPosh genuine question, based on your post above. What might I take from the doily covered car? Because the furthest I can get is...it's a car covered in a doily.

And if I decided to place a car and cover it in a giant doily (I have no artistic sense whatsoever) but just had the idea of thinking of some weird combination and exhibiting it - would that qualify me for the Turner prize?

Let's say I took a set of saucepans, painted them yellow and filled them with used tea bags. How is that different?

More USA market but still.

It's not to say there are not installations that make you think or are just good - but there's a lot of awful stuff and bullshit.

The nomination isn’t for a car covered in a doily - it’s for a whole exhibition including visual and sound installations which the car formed part of. There’s a review here if you want to read about the exhibition as a whole. You can still consider it has no artistic merit if you want, but I think you do need to look at it context.

I do always wonder what Turner himself would think about it.

They didn't make the car either.

This is what I was going to say. A florist doesn't have to grow their own flowers to make an arrangement. It's how the materials are used.

I went to a gallery which had four works by one artist. Each was a white painted canvas, that’s it. They looked like oversized paint samples. I don’t care what the artist’s concept was.

YANBU. It's total bollocks, not art.

Ah, I know the answer. It's not a car - it's cake!

They didn't make the car either
Of course I understand that, but the most creative piece in the installation is the crochet work that has probably taken a long time and skill by another person/ people that don't appear to be credited for their skill.

Much traditional art was considered "modern crap" at the time - we look back on it now and consider it a masterpiece, but a lot of it had people up in arms going "WTF IS IT?" back in the day.

@elizzza Thanks for that review - it explains quite clearly what the artist was trying to show, and that is a legitimate "reason" (if you even need one!) for creating something.

I like it.

Emperor's. New. Clothes

You can fool a lot of the people a lot of the time

Why?