Senior role - should I be paid for extra hours required to complete the job?

[Orabee]

I work for a tech company. I am sometimes required to work extra hours to complete client projects. I have been working here for 2 years and on a few occasions I was required to work extra and got time in lieu. I am now required to work extra again to complete a project and I asked if payment instead of time in lieu would be an option. I was told it wouldn't as they don't want to create a precedent. This is a small tech company, staff are paid competitive salaries, hybrid working, flexible hours, competitive benefits, lots of trust. I left another job due to stress. No stress here, just extra hours from time to time. My line manager hinted that time in lieu has been a favour as in my role I would really be expected to work the hours required to complete the job. I earn 43.5K (not South of England) plus all the benefits package and 3% Xmas bonus. I came here from a public institution so not sure what I can expect from a private company. Am I being unreasonable to ask for extra pay?

To be fair, OP describes it as a senior role in her thread title.

Depends entirely on the number of hours. I do get paid overtime or get TOIL but I’m only contracted to 26 hours a week and regularly have to do more as I should really be closer to 40 hours.

If I were full time I wouldn’t be paid out nor would I expect it. However informal TOIL is something I’d expect generally in all roles.

That is true, but lots of people also seem to think just over 40K makes it a senior role too, which is a bit of damning indictment on salaries in this country.

Either it isn't a senior role or she is being seriously underpaid (or it's a non-technical role in a tech business possibly).

I don't think it's exploitation if the employer gives flex in return

Personally I am very happy to do additional hours when needed in exchange for being able to finish early some days, WFH some days, duck out to do things like attend school events.

Absolutely, but TOIL is flex and lots of people here saying OP even expecting that is taking the piss.

I am on £60k but still claim overtime for ad hoc projects. It's always approved by management.

There's a difference between TOIL and flex

A PP explained this very well. TOIL is more "last month I worked 9.2 hours extra, so I am taking next Tuesday off" and flex is more "I have this thing next week, so I'll finish a bit early"

Depends on how you (and the company you work for) view it I guess.

If you are working 8 hours extra so that you can leave half an hour early one day, that's neither though.

I think this depends massively an how many extra hours you need to do. One or two hours here or there, I would expect as part of a salaried role. A whole weekend I would definitely expect either payment or TOIL.

I was thinking something like a business analyst, delivery manager or project manager rather than super skilled like an engineer or QA. In the north 35-70k seems like the range for a one of these roles depending on experience.

When I was a mid level BA about ten years ago I was on 30k for reference.

Agreed (I might be the PP).

For me TOIL is transactional, you tot up the extra hours you have worked in a given period and then take that exact amount of time off.

Flex is more cultural, you can just say I am taking half an afternoon off or what ever without having to justify why. If you perform well at your job and meet all your targets, as an employee you could probably get more flex than you earned compared to TOIL. And you feel like you are being treated with some respect rather than a chair warmer.

The only time I would ever start to monitor the hours a direct report of mine was working, and decline any Flex Time would be if they was underperforming in their role (although to be fair they would have to have a brass neck to make such request as I would be making it clear they was underperforming in the first place and offering support)

What are we talking? Do you usually leave on the dot?

That's quite rare in a senior role. But there is a big difference between starting say an hour early or finishing at 5.30 rather than 5 than having to give up half your weekend for something urgent.

When that happens we would take the time back in a quieter period but I don't think it would look good if someone asked for 30 minutes back.

It's going to massively vary, as the responses here show. The main thing is whether they've misrepresented the role, or are going against your contract. For example, my employment contract says I may occasionally need to adapt my hours for specific projects, and I'll always get TOIL, but any paid overtime has to be approved at quite a high level. It's fine by me because I value extra time more than extra money.

I have friends who would prefer extra money and who actively seek out jobs where there are options to work paid overtime; I have other friends (mainly doctors) who are given paid overtime but would rather have the choice of TOIL; and then others who don't get either and work long hours for nothing extra but it's all part of the expectations of the role and built into the salary.

Time in lieu - yes this is a nice perk/ sign of a decent employer / manager.

paid overtime on a salaried job - No.

Hey OP,

I am a manager of a global IT team for a rech company. Funny enough I posted last year about the issue I was having (and still am having) with customer demands for weekend work, out of hours work and the company being unwilling to pay overtime.

All I can say from my own experience is goodwill is running out and things are coming to a head now.

I give my team flexibility, tell them to keep a record of extra time worked and claim this back as unofficial toil. As others have said, paid OT is rare.

I frequently cover out of hours work and occasionally take some time back but but not 1:1.

If I were you I would log all the hours and make a judgement call as to what your real hourly rate is and to look if you could get more elsewhere.

I'm on my 7th corporate in my career and have yet to work at one that was adequately staffed or where extra hours were not required.

Good luck!

In a technology team our PMs sometimes have to work unpaid overtime. The flexibility usually translates to a good reputation with the client for delivery which isn't to be sneered at if you're new.

Hopefully it won't happen that often.

I have a couple of line reports on your salary but that's not the salary of a senior role where I work. The expectation is that they will put a bit extra in when needed but if any significant amount I make sure they take time in lieu (an informal arrangement managed between me and them as suspect higher ups/Hr Would not approve)

I have also taken some time in lieu, but to compensate for having to log on during bereavement leave.

Time off in lieu is normal if you are salaried.

Just don't let it build up. Take as soon as you can, same week if possible.

No, I would not expect the extra hours to be paid. Take the time off in lieu.

You're not earning megabucks and in your situation I'd refuse to work the extra hours, I'm on a similar wage and I'm strict with my hours now after learning the hard way that if I give an inch they take a mile.

Yeah…private businesses do tend to expect unpaid overtime in senior roles. It’s not right, but it is pretty normal.

Yabu for a professional salaried role. TOIL is more appropriate

Thank you for your replies everyone. I felt bad asking for extra pay so glad to have it confirmed by this thread.