ND masking in girls - more questions

[seriouslynonames]

Hi, I started a thread a few weeks back https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5024307-to-ask-about-nd-masking-in-girls-school-say-she-seems-fine

I wanted to update and ask a further question or two.

Long story short - 8 year old DD (year 3) 'fine in school' but very different story at home. I previously asked whether she could be masking so completely at school as school say her needs are being met and she is 'totally fine all day'.

Since my first thread we have had a diagnosis of ADHD.

We were not able to convert to a joint assessment for autism too, but the assessor did say she thought we should consider an autism assessment. Still waiting for the written report so not taken action yet.

We feel like school are shutting down the conversation about her needs/support and I get the feeling they don't think much of our parenting. They are not authorising any of the part or full days she has missed due to anxiety (she doesn't have a formal diagnosis of a mental health condition and they won't accept me telling them it's anxiety).

I want to go back to my original question - given how convinced school are that she is totally fine.

Could DD be suffering from 'anticipatory' anxiety about school and actually really be fine once she gets there? Like anyone might worry about an event in advance but relax and enjoy themselves once there.... So the anxiety is all beforehand, but then she stops feeling anxious and is relaxed and happy all day. Is that possible?

Or is excellent masking more likely? I had reached the conclusion that her anxiety about school is because the school environment just doesn't feel good to her. Too many demands and rules and a few sensory things. This is what I have understood from what she tells me.

But I am questioning myself because of what school say, and because she isn't angry or explosive as soon as she comes out of school, it's usually later on. She will often say school was fine and be smiling when she first comes out.

I know it's hard to say when you haven't met her!! But if anyone has experience of their child being worked up about going to school but then actually being fine when at school it would be helpful to hear.
Thanks!

but again, what support? They only suggestions have been a- record absence differently and b- get someone else to do something

No one has said WHAT they think should be done! Particularly with a child who is fine in school, when the school will have many many many who are not

Thank you for all the replies, and sorry to have caused such disagreement!

It does seem that compliance and achieving expected levels means schools won't or can't dig deeper despite parents raising concerns. I do very much understand the resourcing challenges for schools, and that there will be children who present much more clearly with unmet need. But if my DD's school want her attending regularly and on time they may need to look at what else they can do to help.

In an earlier post I answered @noshadowatnoon 's question about what I want school to do - and it's really not a lot. But as @Headfirstintothewild has explained, I am also aware there is more than could potentially be done if the need is there. They haven't made any assessment of her needs though, that's part of the problem.

There is no sign of bullying, thankfully.

She is anxious about other things too, it isn't just school. But school is the thing she has to do most often, and where there isn't a choice about going. She is also anxious about illness and school is full of children with varying stages of cold, coughs and other bugs, given the pressure to send in your child even when ill, so that really doesn't help.

Thanks again all

None of us know OPs child which is why it's impossible to suggest strategies. I would start with asking school to get an OT and contact with the local autism/adhd service if possible. The SENCO should be able to advise if they're any good as to what possible assessments/strategies should be considered. However not all are.
What area are you in OP, I can prob send you some links to services you can get help from

@noshadowatnoon
Echoing many posters here to explain that it very much does seem that the child is not fine in school

but if the school say she is, then we can assume there is no behaviour problems and there are no educational problems. the school is there to teach, and she is learning, so there is not school related problem

Anyway. There is no point in me just repeating myself over and over again. There is no problem in school, so the school has not problem to address. That is all there is to it. I cant be bothered to say this again

Particularly with a child who is fine in school

OP’s DD is not fine in school.

They only suggestions have been a- record absence differently and b- get someone else to do something

I have mentioned other support s19 provision, AP (which could include things such as a care farm or forest school or equine assisted learning or many other things), therapies.

The school could also look at other things e.g. do they have anyone who can deliver emotional literacy interventions, Zones of Regulation work, nurture group, drawing and talking therapy, proper movement breaks, other adjustments to meet sensory needs rather than noticing DD fidgets but expecting ear defenders and a wobble board to solve everything. They could look at placement within the classroom, entering/leaving school 5/10 mins early/late via a quieter entrance and met by a key worker. They could identify parts of the week DD struggles with - for example may with sensory needs struggle with lunch so the school could look at a quieter place to eat and lunchtime clubs. Not all these will be able to be provided without an EHCP, which is why it is important OP requests an EHCNA, which the school should have done before now if they don’t understand DD’s needs. However, the whole point of an EHCNA is to determine what SEP is reasonably required.

Other DC having additional needs is often used as an excuse by schools and LAs. Other pupils’ needs do not relieve the school of their duties. If they need more resources they should be requesting an EHCNA (and potentially EHCNAs for other pupils too).

@noshadowatnoon Did you read my post about our experience? School don't always see these things.
I will constantly repeat myself on this. It is is hill I am willing to die on. Teachers don't always get it right. Schools don't always get it right.

No, we can’t assume that. Schools do say some DC are fine when they aren’t. It is clear OP’s DD is not fine at school and there are special educational needs that require SEP. It is a school problem.

@Headfirstintothewild Well put

My DD6 is like that. She is currently on the waiting list for an autism assessment.

It's so incredibly frustrating because school just don't see much of a problem! Only very occasionally does she have problematic behaviour and that is usually crying in a corner rather than being disruptive. Sometimes I wish she behaved at school like she does at home.

@CuteOrangeElephant home is likely her safe space.
How do school act when she's crying?

@noshadowatnoon

Using the coke bottle explanation - the school
Environment is effectively the thing that's shaking the bottle - no explosion / fizzing in school doesn't mean there's nothing that can be done.

"School" need to work with OP and DD to look at reasonable adjustments to stop shaking the bottle! Likely to be some strategies to help regulate during the day / breaks / calm down room / fidget toys / ear defenders / avoiding crowded lunch rooms - there's lots of ways to reduce the shaking.

Her teacher calms her down. Last time though it was only noticed by other pupils who then fetched the teacher.

Luckily this is rare. DD is very studious and compliant. One of the ways she regulates herself is by focussing on puzzles/word searches/homework, which is how I suspect she is getting through a full school day.

Home is her safe space. I notice how much more relaxed she is during holidays when there is no pressure to go to school.

I have a DD who is also 'not fine at school'. When I first went to the school to voice my concerns, they were surprised, but they listened to me. My DD is very passive, never retaliated if bullied, never honest about her feelings. Never disruptive or upset. Just 100% positive and smiley. Until she gets home.

Despite us not yet having a diagnosis, the Headteacher and her class teacher made changes instantly and there are now several things in place for her if she needs them.

OP just needs the school to listen to her.

The point is that the school should listen to the parent. If the parent is saying, I see a child at home who is saying she dislikes school, who is crying about having to come in, or who is melting down in the car, and the child is saying that the anxieties and worries are school based, then yes the school needs to do something.

What they should do is work with the family to establish what is causing the stress that is being bottled up and only expressed in the safe space. This will be different for every child, but let's give an example.

Jenny cries on Sunday nights about school saying she "hates it". Mum probes a little further and Jenny is able to specify that she hates lunchtimes because the canteen is echoey and the food smells make her feel sick. She hates Wednesday afternoon because her teacher is on PPA and the regular supply teacher is shouty and scary. And she feels like she has no friends so spends every break time wandering from group to group hoping someone will let her play. She hasn't told anyone in school any of this because this is just how she believes school is.

So yes she's learning, no she isn't causing any bother, but yes there absolutely are things that school can and should do to make things feel better for Jenny....and which Mum, who bears the brunt if Jenny's distress, literally can do nothing about.

In this case they might arrange for Jenny to eat her lunch with a small group of kids from her class in a separate space, or go to lunch first. They might have a word with the supply teacher about Jenny feeling worried by them, or make arrangements for her to have support during those sessions or spend the time on an intervention outside the classroom. They might observe Jenny at break and see if she needs some social support, and maybe facilitate a friendship group via a shared interest or similar.

Schools really do need to look beyond the surface level expressed behaviours and work as a team with families to be the best they can be in supporting children. It's when this doesn't happen that children - so often autistic girls - end up in emotionally based school non attendance after burnout.

To look at both ds & I at school you would have thought we were both NT, but once we got home everything came crashing down. Ds had the most massive meltdowns, he was so angry I couldn't talk to him for at least 2 hours after school, I used to sit him in the car, give him a snack & drink, then we drove home in silence, the moment he got in the house he would explode, screaming, kicking & thumping me, telling me he hated everything & everybody, then he would clear off into his bedroom & slam the door, then he would sob & sob before falling asleep he was exhausted from masking. When I got home from school, I just used to burst into tears, but if my mum asked me what was the matter, I didn't know what was wrong, just that something was.

@CuteOrangeElephant I'm glad she has a safe space at home. Do school offer wellbeing clubs or anything. My son had great success with this. It was great for his feelings to be validated

She will be masking exceptionally well at school. It's exhausting and leads to the anxiety/issues at home as you are her safe place. My daughter did it until she almost broke down, it.can cause huge trauma. Apply for a parental request for an EHCP. There is a huge amount of misunderstanding on this post.

We're in the same type of situation. It's heartbreaking.

In primary the school thought I was a helicopter parent until DD was was about 8, then she found it too difficult to cope all day and started showing unusual behaviour at school as well.
The school contacted Barnardo's for their Specialist Advisory Service and for the rest of DDs education even with no diagnosis, she then had regular checks and observations, I was consulted too, and each check resulted in a report with things school and I were to try to support DD. This is something practical they could do.