Has social media made conforming to so called norms even more essential, resulting in an explosion of people who don't, feeling they must have something pathologically wrong with them?

[NeelyOHara1]

As counter intuitive as it sounds I think there was much more room in the past for different ways of being and thinking.

In the past every village had an idiot, but it was their idiot, the other villages didn't have to worry. Now all the idiots have got themselves a Fakebook group and a forum, together they have formed a conesus, they think they are right. And now there are 1000 of them all shouting together.

I have a child with autism, and I think it’s complex when as you say “ identifying as autistic “
I never once called DC autistic until they were diagnosed, I didn’t refer to them as having SEN because they was very clear and I had been told however never autistic until they had the right assessments and was officially diagnosed.
I do find labelling without diagnosis an odd one, you wouldn’t diagnosis your child with any other condition until you knew specially what if was, the same as adults who self diagnose.
I remember watching a tik tok of a women who did daily videos of being autistic and her tik tok name also had autism and adhd in it.
she eventually had the assessments and it was deemed she neither had autism or ADHD.

Pre social media I didn't conform to norms, and I haven't felt obliged to since it became popular.
Its the old "comparison is the theif of joy" thing. Why we all want to be the same is beyond me.

@cariadlet i wonder why would a form ask if you "identify as disabled"? Is it intended to cover eg people who believe they have ADHD but have no formal diagnosis yet?

You got different advice than us. CAMHs who pushed for my dc’s diagnosis started referring to her NDs and being on the diagnosis pathway well before diagnosis and used them as part of treatment.Ditto other services. Why on earth wouldn’t they? They needed reasonable adjustments for treatments and interventions.What were we all supposed to do, sit there watching them spiral until we got the pieces of paper and then all systems go? Ditto for all the hoards of other kids waiting in schools and services?

Anything is normal now. You can find any tribe you like on social media. Even sicko paedophiles find each other.

The issue is more that people don't always have groupthink with their tribe so when they find out that the majority of their group actually think differently about another important issue, this can make people feel like they don't fit in again.

Every view seems to be divisive and have a group. Then you feel like you have to connect to another group for another view and so on til you wonder where you belong.

I didn’t say that did I ? I said they were referred to as having SEN, their needs were always met but until we knew what we were dealing with we didn’t guess.

I think the idea of identification as disabled initially came about because some people with a medical condition (e.g. deafness) did not wish to consider themselves disabled. This makes a lot of sense as people are affected in different ways and some found the label didn't reflect their reality. But then it got flipped round with people identifying into being disabled outwith normal diagnostic processes. This has been made vastly worse by the unconscionable delays in getting adequate medical support which means that social media has rushed in to fill a vacuum. Sometime this means people get the practical help they need early, in other cases it can lead to social contagion and people deciding they have conditions that objectively they don't.

I also think that if you've felt excluded for much of your life the stakes are much higher when you finally find a group that welcomes you, and so you may feel under more pressure to conform for fear of being excluded all over again.

*It's actually an accidental form of Social Credit, similar to the system used in China.

If you are not seen to conform you are punished, and in a lot of cases, publicly humiliated by having footage of your transgression shared online. The West is actually becoming less democratic and free. And for some reason, young people in particular are demanding more of the same. We are sleepwalking into totalitarianism.*

I’m less interested in the self-diagnosed ND issue, but this aspect of social media conformity is something I’ve been thinking about recently. It was sparked by an Instagram reel I saw of a child misbehaving in a playground; they were about 6 or 7, pushing other children around. And rather than intervene or alert the child’s parents, an adult had chosen to film the child and post it on instagram. Of course the comments were filled with contempt for the child and his parents, with only one lone voice questioning why it was now considered okay to film random children and post them on open social media accounts without the knowledge or permission of their parents. Of course they were immediately shouted down as a Karen whose own children must be badly behaved, but I thought that they had a point. The child’s behaviour was poor, but not particularly unusual for their age. But surely adults should know better than to film vulnerable strangers and use them for content, especially with the intention to shame and invite negative comments? It makes me feel like I’m going mad, that mine is apparently now such a minority view.

Social media, from day one, has allowed people to find other people who are like them. When I was at school in the 80s/90s, if you were a teenager with an unusual hobby or interest or a fan of something/someone that nobody else at your school was into, your outlet for talking about that with people who shared your interest was basically zero. These days people can connect and be part of a group and feel like there are people who understand them even if they have no real-life friends.

I did have an incredibly lovely group of friends at school (still mates 30 years later!), but even then, I still had some really niche interests and I spent a lot of time being quietly miserable about having nobody to talk to about them and feeling quite isolated.

Of course people can be bullied or alienated via social media, but that's not driven by social media. It's exactly the same thing that happened (still happens) to people in real life.

There was a lot more negative stereotyping of autism in the past, so even if you were, you wouldn’t let anyone know. Plus decades when it was blamed on poor parenting by the mother, so you certainly would be avoiding an autism diagnosis for your child.

It’s not guessing it’s becoming informed about yourself.

No - you only have to watch vox pop street interviews from times gone by to see that people had much more rigid views about what you 'should' be doing, which impacted people's lives. Think about how unmarried mothers would struggle to find someone to rent to them, as people wouldn't want to b associated with some intangible concept of 'impropriety'.
On a smaller scale, think about how many people were forced into inviting relatives who they didn't like to their weddings because it was just the 'done thing' (says who) and to not do so would be an unspeakable slight - you still get this attitude off people, but it's much less the scandal than it used to be as people can compare notes and go 'hey, actually maybe I don't have to invite my abusive dad to my wedding if I don't want to, that other person didn't and they don't regret it/that person did and he caused a scene and they regret it'
When people talk about being silenced, I think people have lost sight of the fact that we are able to communicate wider than ever before, for good. If your husband cheated on you 50 years ago, you'd only have the opinions of your family and friends to go by, and you'd feel pressured into reacting a certain way, because you had no support to behave differently, or no differing ideas to consider on which to develop your thinking. Now, you can go on Google and read stories, connect with other people - knowledge is power, especially for women.

It is, if it’s sensible and measured and the algorithm hasn’t sent you down an echo chamber

Oh here we go, didn’t have to wait very long did we for the true point of the thread - let the you’re only saying you have autism because it’s trendy on social media bashing begin!

I think for a lot of young people particularly it's both; the desire to conform, but also the desire to stand out and be different. Social media has a lot to answer for on both those counts.

I see it in a young family member (in her 20s). She's desperate to be seen as a sexy TikTok girl (so loads of pouty filtered selfies, miming along to songs in a what she thinks is sexy fashion etc), and at the same time over the last year or two has diagnosed herself with autism, ADHD, bulimia, dyslexia, dyspraxia, anxiety and depression. She may well have traits of one or more of those things, but has no diagnosis, not even seen a doctor or other professional about any of it. But posts and shares memes about having one of more of those things, a lot.

Or maybe that is also a desire to conform if other people in her social circle are doing it too, who knows. Regardless, she gets attention, it makes her feel good, feel noticed, feel special.

I think SM for older people who didn't grow up with it is in a way less harmful; for most of us our identities are fully formed, we don't need validation from strangers and we use it as a tool to keep in touch with friends and look at pictures of puppies, find recipes or whatever. That's certainly how I use it.

It seems to be so different for a lot of younger people, it's intrinsically part of who they are and how they present themselves to the world, and it sets an entirely different set of 'norms' that then follow through into the real world.

Well said potato this is certainly what has happened to us.
Unfortunately the self diagnosis’s didn’t solve anything and eventually she stumbled across the trans influencers, who apparently offer a safe haven from everything nasty - it’s the ultimate in self diagnosis. Suspect you have ADHD? Anxiety? Depression ? It’s actually because you are trans! embrace your transness and all will be well! There’s cool merch, and it’s a bit rebellious, what could possibly go wrong.
then the algorithms made sure she saw nothing to offer an alternative view, the school etc affirm, you’re told you’re not trans enough if you’re not..wesring boys clothes, cutting your hair short, wearing a binder, not realising your parents are transphobes, living with your family, being in contact with friends and family, takeing testosterone.
so to answer OPs question, yes, it has. I think you could be happy being ‘different’ to your peers by wearing a mohair jumper and eyeshadow . Now there is immense pressure to wear this mohair jumper, then someone will say, ‘ you’re wearing the wrong mohair jumper.
to quote bill Bailey it’s all about people saying stuff like,’ten ways youre looking out the window wrong’
rant over.

Nah, it was never ok to be different. Just ask all of those women who were a bit odd, or interested in getting an education. Burning at the stake as a witch got rid of them for a few hundred years and when that stopped being socially acceptable, they could still be chucked into an asylum by a male relative or husband.

Before the internet, people with differences generally need to move to particular urban areas where there were higher concentrations of gay people, goths etc.

The internet meant that people from smaller numbers could meet more like them. Particularly the geeks, who would have been shunned in class for being uncool, but then programmed everything to benefit themselves. The explosion in comic book movies can definitely be tracked back there. It does mean there is a new way to pressure everyone to be the same too. We do like to cycle back round as a species.