To think doing a PhD with young children is impossible?

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It’s Oxbridge, and it’s a fellowship, but I am finding it so tough to combine with family life. I thought it would be easier to combine PhD and home life than working and home life, but it’s not. Has anyone done it successfully? It doesn’t help the field is pretty new to me. All my friends who’ve done phds (non Oxbridge) have loved their first years. I just wonder what the hell I'm doing.

It is possible but yes it is bloody hard...and I don't know how you'd do it without a supportive co-parent or additional help with childcare. Like with any job, which in effect is what it is.

Imagine having a parent whose exclusive focus wasn’t on you.

@Craicbaby if you are in the group of people who have done a PhD with kids, you’ll presumably be bright enough to recognise it’s quite a leap to claimthat my post equates to demanding my parent’s exclusive focus be on me.

However, it is a lovely example of the Mumsnet habit of reducing a complicated situation via some tidy “all or nothing” thinking.

For heaven’s sake, it was a deeply whiny and derogatory comment to post on a thread from someone who wants actual advice about an ongoing DPhil situation. What possible relevance does the fact that you appear to not have recovered from a parent doing an MA in your own childhood have to the OP? I’d suggest you resolve your own issues about not feeling heard. Unless your intention is to suggest to the OP that she should drop out immediately in case her children suffer from her saying ‘Wait a second’.

My perspective (to which I’m entitled) is that something has to give in this situation: and it may be attention on the children, who are still young.

People are lambasting me only because that perspective may be inconvenient, but it is something the OP may want to consider.

Handled poorly and with a lack of awareness: yes - it may impact her children. It’s something that’s worth being aware of. So, it’s relevant, however inconvenient that may be.

I started my PhD child free and full time, ended it part time 3 kids later. If you want to do it full time it sounds like you need wrap around care as the school day isn't long enough. Me and my DH split sickness cover equally. Good luck, it is hard and I definitely had times where I cried and nearly packed it in but I'm so proud that I did it.

So why not say that? Rather than a passive-aggressive childhood memory? A DPhil is a FT job. Most children will have one if not both parents working FT.

You realise that it needs to be approached as a FT job but then don't have childcare after school hours like you would if in a FT Job. That is why you are having to do split hours and use your evenings. Your partner will need to accept that they have to take on more at weekends to enable you to work too.

It is doable with the right support and right organisation and mindset.

@Craicbaby I think it’s quite clear what the childhood memory illustrates. Arguably, it does it more aptly than my elaborating posts.

However, your (quite insulting and unnecessarily aggressive) responses to my point bear the silver lining of at least instigating that elaboration. If my posts provide some pause for thought for the OP, I am glad. If not, she can disregard.

However, the OP already seems to be under considerable stress (she mentions having cried one weekend). An overly stressed out parent is not ideal, and I say that as someone who is often stressed by parenting myself and really tries to curb that - not always successfully.

Raising young children is very hard and demands a lot of energy. I have only one and a 4 day a week job, and I find it very challenging.

So is completing a PhD. Really, only the OP knows in her heart whether she can really manage both without either her or her family suffering detriment.

She’s under stress because, as I and several others have pointed out, she has a FT job she is trying to do in ‘school day’ hours with no childcare. Her partner needs to do more and/or they need wraparound care.

The fact that you seem to struggle with no having had sufficient attention from a studying mother and to raise one child on a PT job is totally irrelevant to an OP who is stressed because she’s trying to do a FT job without adequate childcare.

I did mine, Oxbridge, and had dd in my 2nd year. There was no official way to go PT in those days so I intermitted for 2 years but actually just went part time. I also had a grant and used some of that for a couple of nursery days in the last year and dh took over completely on Saturdays. (I had some data collection challenges so the extra time was a good thing in any case.)

These days there should definitely be a PT option if you need one and if you have a grant then you could buy yourself some extra childcare - afterschool childminder for a day or two for example. And can you partner give you time?

There should also be some sort of group/society for student parents that can be helpful if only to share issues and maybe trade some childcare.

I was already in it when I had dd so I was determined to finish it. If you've got funding - would it help if it could be delayed until your 4 year-old starts school? I'm sure it can be done - I've seen others do it - as long as you are committed to getting it done.

I know very few people who recall any bits of doing a PhD as fun! I started my PHD pregnant, completed in 4.5 years having had 3 kids (and a few losses). It felt impossible at times. Mine was my job (paid) and had in person tasks (incl. lecturing commitments). Currently I’m on my first mat leave without PHD requirements and it feels like a huge relief. It’s been worth it but it was hard.

Things that helped; working out when I “think” best. For me - the daily grind of night wakes and being mum meant I was sometimes spending hours I didn’t have at a desk unable to write or read productively. Getting up early OR staying up late suited me better for the some parts. And I’d use the time I had childcare to sleep/do house work/prep food instead.
Finding a space to work outside the house - using a uni campus (not my own which was too far away), local libraries etc. basically creating a workspace and routine.
Setting myself deadlines in advance of when aspects were dues rewarding myself if I met them and actually stopping to reflect on why not if I didn’t and addressing those reasons (eg. My eldest dd has a chronic illness. We couldn’t afford financially to share the leave to look after her BUT knowing there were patterns helped me recognize I didn’t to pace my submissions differently/commit to less at a specific time of the year).
Mine weren’t school age at the time: I certainly couldn’t have done it trying to fit it in from 9:15-3pm (ie around school) but to be fair - in my field - that wouldn’t be a full time job either! Are you realistic with the time you can give it? To work that, do you need more support from friends or family? Partner? I initially hoped to submit in three years and admitting to myself that that wasn’t timeline that would work for what I wanted for my family (ie to be available for them and actually have one family day a week with my dh and kids) and restructuring my timeline of submission - in line with that was the best thing I did. As it stopped me always feeling like I was failing at all three- work, PhD and family - and helped me feel ok about the balance.

Mine are 7 and 5, I'm in the last year of a 4 year PhD, which entirely lab based (biomedical sciences). It's doable, but requires treating it like a job, and being super organised. I can't wait to finish though

@Piglet89 - @Craicbaby 's posts are neither "insulting and unnecessarily aggressive".
They are spot on.

I was feeling I shouldn’t wade in as a third party, but since you have done - I totally disagree tbh. @Piglet89 is entitled to talk about her experience and perspective. As she’s said herself it’s really up to the OP to decide whether it’s relevant and useful or not. It’s hard not to think that the reason people are responding so vehemently is that as busy mothers who are trying to do it all they feel very personally attacked and threatened by the suggestion that it’s possible that kids in that situation could potentially sometimes feel a bit neglected. I totally understand that won’t be what anyone wants to hear, and it may very well be it isn’t true of their own kids, but it’s not a good reason to attack Piglet for talking about what was true for her. Fair enough to point out if you feel the solution is more childcare and partner support, but the implied sneer at Piglet for finding things stressful with one child and a part-time job was also nasty and unnecessary.

Thank you @Harara I really appreciate that supportive post.

I think in general people handle the stress of PhDs differently and so it's hard to advise on the coping with a PhD/family aspect. It's important to be organised and to have a good supervisor and family support network. You could at least give it a try and in the worst case, if you really can't cope, then you could quit? I'd just give it your best shot and take the opportunity, if it doesn't work out then at least you tried. Good luck.

My husband started a PhD at Oxbridge. He had me being supportive at home and it was tbh not fun with young children. We decided it wasn’t compatible in the end and he stepped into work. It was just always there, always hanging over for him and so hard round family life. I have a friend who did it, but dh just decided the sacrifice was too much