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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to try to renegotiate KIT days

102 replies

MamaSleep · 22/04/2024 11:27

Hello. I’m after some advice on KIT days.

I am currently on MAT leave and have a series of 8 2-3 hour meetings I want to attend before my return.

My Line Manager agreed I could let these meetings add up to 2 KIT days, however I have just read the following on Maternity Action’s Website:

You can use a KIT/SPLIT day to keep up to date with what has been happening in your workplace while you have been on leave; to attend a training course or staff meeting; to complete a project or to help you settle back into work gradually at the end of your maternity, adoption or shared parental leave.
Even if you only work for part of a day or a couple of hours it will still use up one of your KIT/SPLIT days.

Am I being unreasonable if I go back to my Line Manager and ask if I can use the meetings as individual KIT days rather than adding them together?

I know I should have researched first but… FTM and was slightly overwhelmed in earlier months.

Appreciate any thoughts/advice/experience.

AIBU - you have agreed, leave it.
YANBU - worth asking the question

OP posts:
PandasMum · 26/04/2024 09:08

It’s illegal for them to add the different days together and pretend it’s one. You are allowed 10 ‘days’ of working & any time I.e an hour counts as working in that day. If you exceed that - your maternity leave automatically ends.

Whether they pay you for the whole day or the hours worked is different for different employers and it’s up to the employer. As a small start up I would highly suspect you’ll be getting the statutory minimum so just paid for the hours worked. You can’t compare to the NHS who have lots of benefits that far exceed statutory minimums.

Your current plan would use 8 days up and likely end up as 2 days worth of pay. You would not be able to arrange more than another 2 days.

Shinyandnew1 · 26/04/2024 09:17

Liyah3 · 26/04/2024 08:41

I work as a finance manager and while preparing payroll last December, it was pointed out to me by our payroll provider which we outsource the payroll to, that a lady who came for 1h meeting during her KIT day, should be paid for full day - they send me the link that I posted earlier. Then they also said, we are not allowed to add up hours from different KIT days. They are one of the biggest London payroll company, so I trust they know the legal aspects of maternity leave and KIT days.

Edited

I expect some companies do choose to pay a full day for some employees. That doesn’t make it a legal requirement, just a decision they have made.

Kathryn1983 · 26/04/2024 09:40

Technically you have to use them as individual kit days
you can't add 2 hours a day over 8 days together to make 2 kit days so she is wrong anyway
however you also can't expect to get a full days pay for 2-3 hours work you'll only get paid for 2-3 hours but will still be counted as a kit day
you could have a company that would fudge it but none I've ever managed in would do so

can you include any other activities to make up a full day on those occasions?

Kathryn1983 · 26/04/2024 09:41

MaltipooMama · 22/04/2024 12:15

Yes absolutely you should be taking each meeting as an individual KIT day! It's a legal requirement for you to be able to use any individual day that you're undertaking work tasks to be paid as a day's work, but I would give your line manager the benefit of the doubt, as perhaps they don't know the legislation around it, and just email your HR department and ask for email confirmation for the information you've posted on here.

This isn't entirely true
each time you work (at home or online or in person on site doesn't matter) it is counted as one of your days
BUT there is no legal requirement to pay you a days pay for it if you work less than a days hours
you'll just get 2-3 hours pay each time

Imisssleep2 · 26/04/2024 11:15

I don't think your HR department would allow them to roll the meetings into 2 days. I would ask to work the full day on the meeting days to maximise kit day pay personally. I only plan to do full kit l days to help boost maternity pay

Justanothermum42 · 26/04/2024 11:54

Surely if you are there/online for a couple of hours, you don’t expect to be paid for a full day’s work?

Shinyandnew1 · 26/04/2024 12:46

Check your company’s policy

I think this is the only relevant advice here, to be honest!

ColourChick · 26/04/2024 13:47

Depending on your contract, you will only get paid for the hours worked. So by all means, take them as individual KIT days, but you will likely only get paid for the 2-3 hours.
If this is ok with you, then crack on. You have the law on your side if you wanted to change it.

ColourChick · 26/04/2024 13:51

Wotchaz · 22/04/2024 13:14

Look at what @Revelatio posted from maternity action:

Working for part of a day or even a couple of hours will use up one of your 10 KIT days or 20 SPLIT days. You will usually only be paid for the hours worked and you need to agree what you will be paid with your employer in advance. A day's work will be the normal hours or shift patterns at your workplace.

Basically, while on maternity leave you can take up to 10 KIT days without being considered “back to work”. And a KIT day is defined as “any day that you do some work”, it doesn’t matter if you work for 15 mins or 8 hours it’s one of your KIT days gone. So by working 2-3 hours over 8 days, you have used 8 days of your KIT day allowance and only have 2 days left when you can do any work. If your partner’s taking SPL then you have 20 days split between you, but I assume that’s not relevant for you.

Show quote history

This is also true even if your partner doesn't take any Shared Parental Leave. I just had to formally switch over to SPL to open up the ability to do SPLIT days as well as KIT, but he physically didn't have to take the time off.

SistaPB · 26/04/2024 16:57

I work in HR - we only pay for hours worked. Otherwise surely it’s inequitable- one person may come in for one hour and another seven and they would both get paid the same?!
when I did KIT days - I attended a meeting and my manager gave me some reading etc to take home so that I could make up the whole day. I didn’t necessarily have to read it on that day - so that sort of thing is one way that flexibility can work and you can maximise the KIT days.

Original poster
MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:16

Nervousdave · 25/04/2024 15:31

This is the same as my (large global) company. The UK maternity leave policy states that any hours worked during one of the 10 KIT days will be entitled to a full day's pay.

I have used these 10 full days pay for sporadic meetings, or online learning, email clearing up etc on both maternity leaves, and only hiccup was that my "full day" is longer hours than full time staff, so they'd underpaid slightly, which HR sorted out on my return to work. I just had to log exactly what I'd done so my manager had proof I'd done some work and not Just logged on and off again.

Good luck! It does sound however that as a small start up, there may not be a comprehensive maternity leave policy in place, or potentially an hr department to query with x

Show quote history

Yes no mat leave policy as such as definitely no HR. I don’t want to rock the boat either as like working there and want to return!!

OP posts:
Original poster
MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:18

GinLover198 · 25/04/2024 07:48

I wasn’t paid for my KIT days during my first mat leave, I queried this with HR but received no payment instead they tried to bamboozle my line manager & I with HR jargon. Days were agreed in consultation with my line manager. I gave up arguing with HR. I didn’t do KIT days after my 2nd & 3rd because of this.

Edited

This is absolutely awful

OP posts:
Original poster
MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:29

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I think I’m going to do what a PP did and change to Shared Parental Leave and have 20 days. That means I can attend my training meetings from home (which works so much better for me with the cost of commuting and childcare arrangements) and then also go into the office for some more full days (certainly not 20!!) when Lao is a bit older. That means I can use 8 for my meetings and then have 12 left for anything else I might need.

OP posts:
Original poster
MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:32

I have actually just found another course I would like to do and I can attend the meetings/training for that remotely as well so that might be something to consider

OP posts:
Ineffable23 · 26/04/2024 21:41

MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:29

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I think I’m going to do what a PP did and change to Shared Parental Leave and have 20 days. That means I can attend my training meetings from home (which works so much better for me with the cost of commuting and childcare arrangements) and then also go into the office for some more full days (certainly not 20!!) when Lao is a bit older. That means I can use 8 for my meetings and then have 12 left for anything else I might need.

Won't you have to actually share your leave to do that though?

ShalommJackie · 26/04/2024 22:36

MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:29

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I think I’m going to do what a PP did and change to Shared Parental Leave and have 20 days. That means I can attend my training meetings from home (which works so much better for me with the cost of commuting and childcare arrangements) and then also go into the office for some more full days (certainly not 20!!) when Lao is a bit older. That means I can use 8 for my meetings and then have 12 left for anything else I might need.

Dont you have to actually do shared leave though?

PointyMcguire · 26/04/2024 22:37

Ineffable23 · 26/04/2024 21:41

Won't you have to actually share your leave to do that though?

Show quote history

Yep, or at least that was the case last year when DH & I looked into it.

Shinyandnew1 · 26/04/2024 23:10

MamaSleep · 26/04/2024 21:29

Thank you everyone for your replies!

I think I’m going to do what a PP did and change to Shared Parental Leave and have 20 days. That means I can attend my training meetings from home (which works so much better for me with the cost of commuting and childcare arrangements) and then also go into the office for some more full days (certainly not 20!!) when Lao is a bit older. That means I can use 8 for my meetings and then have 12 left for anything else I might need.

How does that work? Your partner will take leave and earn the £187 a week instead of you? Will you take less maternity leave?

Calamitousness · 28/04/2024 11:09

@MamaSleep you cannot use shared parental leave like that. You are not allowed to work during any parental leave.

dementedpixie · 28/04/2024 11:22

@Calamitousness you are wrong. Shared parental leaves can be taken in blocks; up to 3 I think; so you can have periods of working and not working

ThinWomansBrain · 28/04/2024 11:30

8 2-3 hour meetings - assume an average of 2.5 hours, that's 20 hours?
Plus presumably you need some time to make notes, follow up plans.
It's not unreasonable to ask you to schedule two meetings a day, but no way does this fit into two days.

Calamitousness · 28/04/2024 18:39

@dementedpixie no. I’m not wrong. You have misunderstood what I have said. You really cannot work during parental leave which is what I said.

if she plans on working while her partner is on parental leave and she is back at work then clearly that’s fine but it’s back to scheduled rostered work at that point and not up to the OP to decide what hours she will work or what tasks she will do ie. Work from home to do a course. But it remains that you cannot take parental leave and work during it.

dementedpixie · 28/04/2024 19:00

@Calamitousness did she not say she'd take advantage of the 20 SPLIT days to do the other courses rather than other working during her parental leave?

dementedpixie · 28/04/2024 19:02

P.s. @MamaSleep I think the 20 SPLIT days are in addition to the 10 KIT days