To be frightened about the Government’s plans for benefits reform?

[PilgorTheGoat]

I am one of the millions of people currently on long term sickness benefits. I receive the LCWRA element of UC and PIP due to poor mental health and autism. I have severe anxiety and depression and I am awaiting an appointment to see if I also have PTSD due to sexual abuse in my childhood.

I have tried every element of support offered to me. I’m maxed out on 2 different types of antidepressants. I have had back-to-back (excluding the 6 month wait in between) 12 week sessions of counselling offered via the NHS. I am on a waiting list for intensive CBT due to my possible PTSD. I am currently having twice weekly private, video counselling appointments.

I can’t leave my house alone due to panic attacks. I struggle to meet my own care needs and my husband has to do a lot of the work for us both (although he works full time). I have a very understanding friend whom I force myself to go for a short walk with twice a week in order to stop myself becoming completely imprisoned at home but I find this very distressing and we have to take the same route each time.

I am so, so scared about the government’s plans to end sickness benefits for people like me. We don’t have a load of spare cash, we’re just about getting by. There is no support available. I’ve taken everything offered and my husband has been very proactive in seeking out other services for me to be involved with. I’d love to be better, I’d love not to live in fear but there is no help.

Means testing on legacy benefits like ESA is usually down to whether or not the claimant has paid enough NI to qualify for contribution based benefits. PIP isn’t means tested for obvious reasons - it’s a universal benefit to support the extra cost of disability.

How well did you know that man? Saw him a few times occasionally? How do you know all his medical history? Did you live with him in the same house? Did you see his bank account all the years and are sure he was receiving only benefits for 30 years?

I know someone who claimed he lied on his PIP assessments! That person had drug issues, was limping and was officially diagnosed with borderline disorder. I witnessed him verbally assaulting police officers after he called them! He ended up in jail for a few nights for his behaviour. Seeing how he acts and talks only a few times was enough for me to realise that he definitely deserves all his PIP money and every other benefit he gets. Because surely he's far away from being a healthy person who can work, even if he obviously dismisses the reality of how mentally unwell he is and says to everyone that he lied on his PIP application!

That means that despite what people say, GP and other NHS health professionals know better than me or you what's the reality of the patients. There's a reason why they study and practice for years in order to get the jobs they have.

Any person who uses this kind of language 'working's for mugs' and thinks it, is definitely not a person I want to be around! I don't have close friends or relatives who thinks that way, and I avoid people with that kind of mentality.

For most people, it's a great satisfaction to work at a job they like if they can physically and mentally do it. For which they receive a wage and as a result are able to pay for their lifestyle. They can be proud of any work achievements, they know that they aren't a burden for society or their own family; etc. There's nothing wrong with working as long as you can do it. I'm not claiming now that everyone sees work as a heaven I described, but surely being homeless and hungry isn't the option anyone will go after on purpose. People who struggle with severe mental health issues and physical issues and as a result can't work don't have any kind of choice.

I'm sorry you didn't have a great school experience and were around those kind of people. Either way, that doesn't mean you have a right to judge people with mental health issues or physical issues and accuse them of lying. Especially if you never experienced it on your own skin and don't have any kind of degree in the health care.

But perhaps that’s exactly what Sunak is thinking of. Or even Labour. People put in a receipt or evidence and get the money back.
We really don’t know yet.

Good Lord. Thank your lucky stars that you are not a carer of a person, child or adult, who lives with the effects of sleep deprivation due to their needs and associated behaviour for weeks on end, impacting your health, your ability to work and to care for other household members, never mind have any quality of life. Because respite is nigh on impossible to to get. Been there, done that (dementia). 18 months.

They use sleep deprivation as torture you know. Jesus wept.

Needs change each week though. Some months I need to buy more taxis because I have more appointments out of the house and my fatigue is bad and so I can't walk back from them. Some weeks my fatigue isn't as bad and I can walk home from an appointment but I am getting so overwhelmed with cooking I am screaming at everyone and harming myself if I try and cook due to overwhelm and I have to order in food twice that week. Some weeks i have a cleaner come other weeks not. Sometimes it doesn't matter what my needs are because the kids have a school trip to pay for and have grown out of the shoes and it doesn't matter that it'll take me 2 hours to walk a 20 mins journey because I just have to buy what they need and my UC with out pip is well below the poverty line and I can't afford to buy them what they need.

Having a prepayment card for taxis and one for when I need a order food in and one for the cleaner etc would not help me and money would be wasted on stuff I don't need and I wouldn't have money for things I do need when. So youd have to have a system where you have to report what you have needed money spent on that week and tbh that's degrading, exhausting and would involve staff and admin, and would likely go wrong all the time.

Disabled people are people and should be treated humanely and that should include the right to make decisions about their money and how it is spent.

I have a 2 year old and a 4 year old. I am familiar with how debilitating sleep deprivation can be.

Do you know what, we just get on with it.

I've no idea what difference receiving £800 a month would have made to the situation - except dangle a benefits carrot to potentially make giving up work a possibility.

The paragraphs you’ve highlighted is not ‘coaching’. It’s general advice, and that same advice is also given by DWP on the actual application support leaflets. Be honest about the condition, be clear about the effects. And other DWP leaflets advising on application for disability benefits generally encourage claimants to think about how their disability affects them on their worst days, and to think about what percentage of the time they are affected. This is because the assessment itself covers these points. So how exactly is it wrong and ‘coaching’ if DWP advise it themselves ?

And Child DLA is much more difficult to claim because all children are dependent on their parents and there has to be evidence that the disabled child has significantly higher needs and dependence than a child of comparable age without a disability.

And on your point about UC, did you run the rate for a single disabled person or a couple with no kids ? And I hope you factored in that for someone on CA, UC deducts it from benefit pound for pound and replaces it with a much lower carers premium.

"Just get on with it." Here's a medal for your superhuman resilience.

Pfft.

Maybe I should put in a claim and use the money to buy a buy-to-let in my son's name?

Maybe you should stop embarrassing yourself. Your inanity is tedious.

Sleep deprivation for two small children is a lot different to sleep deprivation caring for a child or even an adult with a disability. It’s not £800 in every case, and it’s payable for a lot more than sleep deprivation, just as PIP and other disability benefits are only paid for significant levels of impairment. That’s been explained to you at least a dozen times over the course of the thread, but you’re still not listening are you ? Because it doesn’t fit with your narrative.

Try adding in caring for a child or an adult who is doubly incontinent and requires personal and bed changing throughout the night and day. And repeated bathing after accidents. Washing machine on all day, extra costs for incontinence products - both personal and bed protection. Then there’s specialised equipment that may need to be put on charge through the night. And that’s only the tip of the iceberg for someone with multiple disabilities.

This is all great but the government are looking to reduce outgoings and are looking at ways to save money.

Just thinking about my family side that I know everything about my mum's quality of life would not have been reduced if she had a taxi prepay but it may just give the government enough savings long term to carry on giving them to you.

The government have to balance the ideals of claimants with that of people who are helping fund it so will need to look at other measures I would not rule anything out and I am sure the treasury dept will be briefing to both party's what shit we are in. ( Why do you think Labour are rolling back on their promises at a time when they should be shouting from the rooftops)

Maybe you should stop posting now because the level of ignorance you’re displaying is becoming embarrassing.

Children are not being awarded £800 a month DLA just because they wake up at night 🙄

It seems given a pp that PIP gets absorbed into other stuff.
Surely if, for example, someone is sleep deprived due to the never ending ( and it should be beyond what generally parents have to deal with ) sleep deprivation paying for someone to support you now and then and putting in a receipt to get that paid for would focus support more.

Claimants wouldn’t absorb the money for things that do not relate to their additional needs due to disabilities and in so doing they would effectively get more appropriate support.

Isnt essentially that’s what this is all about. Appropriate and timely support.

caveat for yes I know who is going to give that support etc. that’s another thread

Maybe you should consider stopping posting now if this is the only contribution you can make. The thread is nearly at an end and there may be posters with genuine experience and something useful to contribute to the debate rather than the same old inane shit you’ve been banging out repeatedly.

What you’re suggesting would cost more. Care is provided by different means and disability benefits are included in the assessment for care. At the moment there is a set allowance based on assessed need, which the claimant uses however they want to support their condition. For some reason people seem to think that this means they’re not spending it on disability unless there’s specific conditionality on what the money is spent on. If specific conditionality were introduced we would have to pay disabled people far more than we’re doing now because the true cost of disability would become evident - at the moment the true cost isn’t fully supported, only a contribution is made towards it. As an example. The daily living component of PIP is paid at £107 a week if it’s awarded at the higher rate. A night carer for one night, costs in excess of £200. That’s why there’s no conditionality on what the disabled persons spends their PIP on. Because for many people the true extra cost of their disability would be far in excess of the weekly allowance, so it’s cheaper to make a contribution.

So basically what you are saying is that causing disabled people and their children to suffer and struggle is a completely acceptable way for the government to save money.

I mean ok. Wow.

It's not ideals. It's just a simple fact. My pip money often doesn't get spent on my disability help it gets spent on food and children's shoes and bills because without it my children would suffer because I do not get enough to cover those things otherwise. A prepayment taxi card wouldn't feed my kids when I'm having an autistic meltdown and burnt all the dinner and we need to order take out but there's no money for take out because instead I've got a prepayment taxi card 😕

I only mentioned it was absorbed into other stuff as a poster who receives PIP said so on this thread. I think to buy the kids new shoes ( don’t quote me )

I appreciate the system it seems Sunak is considering (another poster said so ) sounds much more expensive. But what do I know. What do any of us know. It seems logical to assume this I agree !

Clearly they and I dare say all parties will be looking at everything…….

The problem remains that numerous people posting refuse to accept that anybody would possibly lie to obtain free money.

The website I linked to details the exact lies that would need to be told, but the responses all insist that this isn't a problem because it's just 'advice'.

Just so you know, the system will collapse entirely if we continue like this.

I fear that many of you are in for a rude awakening when there's a run on UK Government debt and benefits are slashed to the bone. All the squealing in the world, won't make the slightest difference at that point. It will simply be everybody back to work unless they're genuinely incapacitated with a physical disability.

Your refusal to accept the existence of these large financial incentives for people to submit fraudulent claims, just make me think that fraud is even more widespread than I did before.

I accept some people put in fraudulent claims. What I do not accept is throwing disabled people under the bus on mass because of a (proportionally speaking) handful of fraudulent claimers.

”I fear that many of you are in for a rude awakening when there’s a run on UK Government debt and benefits are slashed to the bone”

This. The times they are a changing.

I have not said anywhere that it's ok but the treasury will have to look at options.

I have suggested my option on what options they could use. Now maybe the country will find billions that we didn't know we had or the big companies may start paying billions in tax but until then I wouldn't be surprised at anything.

I know high tax paying individuals that are now altering their behaviour as they are sick of paying so much tax for no services..

I don't envy any government who has to sort this out to everyones satisfaction but I think genuinely they are all way out of their depth sadly. It seams to be a case in government that this is what we have always done so it will be ok.

What you’re suggesting would cost more

@Rosscameasdoody

I think that the government are just exploring potential options atm. It's all very well to say 'this won't work' and 'that's unreasonable', but the current welfare bill is unsustainable and something has to give.

Whether that should come in the form of reducing the number of people eligible, or cutting payments, I really don't know, but something somewhere has to give. Saying no to everything isn't an option anymore.

And part of what kickstarted this debate...

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/26/anger-rishi-sunak-plan-strip-gp-doctors-sicknote-powers?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQGsAEggAID#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17141437301694&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2024%2Fapr%2F26%2Fanger-rishi-sunak-plan-strip-gp-doctors-sicknote-powers