To be frightened about the Government’s plans for benefits reform?

[PilgorTheGoat]

I am one of the millions of people currently on long term sickness benefits. I receive the LCWRA element of UC and PIP due to poor mental health and autism. I have severe anxiety and depression and I am awaiting an appointment to see if I also have PTSD due to sexual abuse in my childhood.

I have tried every element of support offered to me. I’m maxed out on 2 different types of antidepressants. I have had back-to-back (excluding the 6 month wait in between) 12 week sessions of counselling offered via the NHS. I am on a waiting list for intensive CBT due to my possible PTSD. I am currently having twice weekly private, video counselling appointments.

I can’t leave my house alone due to panic attacks. I struggle to meet my own care needs and my husband has to do a lot of the work for us both (although he works full time). I have a very understanding friend whom I force myself to go for a short walk with twice a week in order to stop myself becoming completely imprisoned at home but I find this very distressing and we have to take the same route each time.

I am so, so scared about the government’s plans to end sickness benefits for people like me. We don’t have a load of spare cash, we’re just about getting by. There is no support available. I’ve taken everything offered and my husband has been very proactive in seeking out other services for me to be involved with. I’d love to be better, I’d love not to live in fear but there is no help.

Some people have to apply for a certain amount of jobs per week to receive certain benefits

People apply for night shift jobs, but don't wish to work nights

My colleague would wait for people to come for night job interviews & they would not turn up
There were job vacancies

Or

They would accept the job, then not turn up
There were job vacancies

Waste of time for my colleague doing the job interviews !

And as this poster’s assertion, those people will be very severely affected if they’re claiming PIP. It’s almost impossible to make a successful PIP claim solely on mental health grounds unless you’re heavily reliant on others and have second line consultant led healthcare support.

This is what made the rhetoric used in Sunak’s’ speech so abhorrent. He intimated that all you need to claim PIP for MH conditions is a prescription from your GP for anxiety/depression meds, and that claimants are being over medicated for normal everyday life experiences. He clearly doesn’t understand how PIP works but wants to ‘reform’ it, which is Tory speak for making the eligibility conditions so narrow that almost no-one qualifies.

Then you should know better shouldn’t you ?

Support for mortgage interest is a loan. Technically you can ‘claim’ it but it has to be paid back at some point. And this poster was right - different councils have different rules and depending on the qualifying benefit, so some claimants still have to pay part of their rent and council tax.

This post wins the ignorant bullshit award for the thread. You clearly know nothing about mental health conditions and even less about how disability benefits work. Mental health disorders are very different from the anxiety we all feel from time to time and can push past. What you’re actually saying to those with mental health conditions is ‘pull yourself together’. You might at least have educated yourself as to what a mental health condition actually is before posting as you did.

And disability benefits like PIP have always been universal benefits. It’s not means tested and claimants can work and claim it. It’s designed to cover the extra cost of living with a disability - which can be substantial - and give disabled people the means with which to engage in society, including employment. It might interest you to know that the mobility component of PIP has actually enabled more disabled people to work, as it’s provided the means for affordable transport. What exactly is ‘crazy’ about any of that ? Child benefit is paid to help with the cost of raising children. You can work and claim it. Or do you think that’s ‘crazy’ too ?

The problem is the support to help those people get into work isn't there.

I applied for a job in the job centre, helping people to find a job, help them access support etc. Would be my perfect job - except that you only get 10 minutes per appointment. You also need to get your admin done in that time. They are horribly understaffed as well.

I coach people in my job now and my sessions are a minimum of 30 minutes, preferably 60. I don't feel it's at all possible to help people who are possibly distressed, apathetic, unmotivated or completely confused and in need of help, in 10 minutes. I got all the way through the application process but withdrew my application in the end.

It's a box ticking exercise.

It’s not impossible it says half of the claims based on ADHD are approved.

‘Dirty DBS’. Can you explain the contents to employers? Some employers would be willing to have a discussion re relatively minor crimes like shoplifting, if they wanted you. Of course violent crimes are another matter.

I didn’t say it was impossible to claim, l said it was almost impossible to claim solely on mental health grounds unless the effects of the condition are severe enough. So it’s likely that those claims approved are for high levels of disability. The MH eligibility conditions for PIP are set very high. As are those for physical conditions. But it’s not in the governments’ interests to publicise that. Better to let them think the system is lax and letting through cheats and scroungers on a daily basis. That way, there’s less resistance when the cuts arrive.

Sunak deliberately set out to give the impression that PIP is too easy to claim. The Tories said the same thing about DLA and used that as the basis for the change to PIP. It was also the Tories who changed eligibility for disability benefits to include MH conditions. It’s taken them over ten years to realise that this will inevitably increase costs, so they’re looking to reduce those costs in the simplest way possible. By vilifying disabled people as cheats and malingerers to pave the way for reforming the benefit so fewer people will qualify.

It’s important to make a distinction here - it’s not about people not being severely disabled. It’s about eligibility rules being tightened so that ever higher levels of disability are screened out to bring costs down.

Very common in many mental health conditions to have a relapse and there is no telling when it will happen. Its horrific for many people out there living life like this.

There's a real lack of compassion on this thread.

This is a very niaeve comment.

What Xenobitch is saying is that she wants to work and could maybe work in the correct role, however there are many restrictions on the type of work she would be able to do and function.

I have been in this situation. I am long term unemployed after a severe mental breakdown and period of autistic burnout due to getting long Covid during the pandemic.

I am tbh completely fed up of not working and worrying about sickness benefits. But I have a considerable amount of restrictions around what kind of job I would be able to do that I can cope with, restrictions that impact going our to work and working from home. It's very frustrating. I am audhd with PTSD, OCD and chronic fatigue syndrome. Despite this I went off to the job centre and said I really wanted to go back to work somehow. I tried going back to the business I ran for years before I was sick, just one shift a week. Job centre said this was ok to do. However when I officially declared it on my UC form all my benefits were stopped. I was told that this was because I didn't have to work and so therefore noone has approved the work and my claim was stalled. I had no money for near a month while they sorted the mess out. I was so distressed my mental health fell apart, I self harmed, ended up back in a and e, and then was too ill after it was sorted to do the work for ages. I have only just managed to pay off the debt that got me in.

I then also asked to see a work coach about help to find a suitable role around all my restrictions. I had a long appointment where we went over all my needs. Great I thought. Except they then every single job they sent me to apply for was completely unsuitable and contradicted the needs I had talked to them about. Every one - think like 35 hour a week jobs on Asda even though I said I can not work customer service, can not work shop floor retail in a big store because the environment gives me regularly panic attacks at work and when I need to go to work and I had to find a small part time job due to my fatigue. In the end I got so stressed and burnt out by all the stuff they sent me that was unsuitable I had yet another severe relapse of illness and had to go tell them I could no longer look for work. I applied for one job they sent me that did meet my needs. However even though I was more then qualified I didn't get an interview, probably because I disclosed my autism in their disability box

It's a rediculous system.

I then off my own back contacted an autism charity. They found a potential course to do that would give me skills to go into a job me and my mentor agreed might be sustainable to me. That's kind of essential if I want to find something I may be able to do long term. Job centre then said I wasn't allowed to do the course with my claim therefore I couldn't do the course as I am already extremely poor. I can't afford to loose the money without being able to replace it. Therefore I couldn't do the course that would have helped me secure a role in an industry that would likely be sustainable for me.

There is absolutely no tailored help to people's needs. I often regret even talking to them about a desire to work as I am convinced I will loose my money next assessment, all while having zero ways to replace it as I can't find any job I could possibly do with the restrictions of my illness with the training and work history I have. I look regularly. I can't find anything and I never get an interview for anything I apply to, i just get so stressed about the application I end up in bed with fatigue. Being plunged into poverty will absolutely tank my mental health which will trigger my fatigue and within weeks I'll likely be as ill as I was when I first applied, which will be incredibly sad as I was dangerously ill then and the only reason I have got better is because I have been able to rest and recover thanks to being accepted for LCWRA.

Getting and keeping a job when you have severe mental illness, neurodiversity and physical health conditions is really not that easy when you are constantly being threatened with being plunged into poverty

''@PilgorTheGoat
Well this is somewhat my point. I’ve accessed years of counselling (far more than 2 lots of 12 sessions), I am doing everything the medical professionals suggest, and yet I am not “cured”. ''

Indeed.

I always thought that counselling was to help you manage the condition as much as possible, not to 'cure' it.

I have had mental health issues since childhood due to trauma/abuse and PTSD as an adult after a rape, nothing is ever going to 'cure' that.

I have had 3 awful nervous breakdowns in my life and many counselling sessions, the last breakdown (trigger warning) was the worst and I made plans to end my life.

The cruelty of mental health issues is that you can have periods where they stabilise and then something in life can trigger you and you go back down the rabbit hole...

I am better now with medications and I have on the waiting list for 8 months for counselling and I am still exhausted on a daily basis. I did have to take almost 2 months off work as the Crisis team was looking after me while I was suicidal. They and my GP saved my life. I was not able to function at all so it makes me laugh when Sunak suggests mental health 'sick notes' are given for flimsy reasons.

I know that I have to be careful to try to stay well but there is no guarantee.

Mental health issues are not just a bit of low mood that will pass with a couple of counselling sessions, they are life-threatening and life limitings conditions too for many people.

Also I have always found employers very unsympathetic as soon as you declare a long term mental health issues and I have had experienced of being bullied for it by managers. That is one of the main issues for me about work and disability. We really need a mindset change by employers so that disabled people and people with long term health conditions can find it easier to get and sustain work.

I'm sorry @Universalsnail but hardly anyone has the perfect job. Sacrifices have to be made.

When someone has been on benefits for decades and probably had hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of treatment, then refuses to even entertain trying to work then I think they are taking the piss.

Isn't it funny how these people can sit and type out responses on MN perfectly fine, but claim they couldn't do a job where they sit and reply to emails?

Employers cause a lot of people to have MH issues ( or made worse) in my experience.
Until some of this is tackled things won't improve.

There is absolutely no tailored help to people's needs

With 2.8 million out of work this is an impossible dream.

How much do you think the public can dedicate to just one person? How much do you think hundreds of hours of therapy, job coaching, benefits to live, housing costs, GP appointments, medications etc, employing staff to provide all of these services, costs?

Now multiply it by 2.8 million - is this remotely affordable?

You have to apply for jobs you know you can't do, simply to make up a quota. All jobseekers do and have had to for many years. At present I believe you get sanctioned if you don't apply for enough, don't go to interviews, don't take a job you are offered (even if it is wholly unsustainable and you only applied for it to meet said quota).

You could be required to work 12 hour shifts standing up (so many disabilities which you can't do 6 hours standing up let alone 12), heavy lifting, night shifts, zero hours contracts (where you could get 40 hours or none at all and you need to stay on UC and keep declaring what you earn because some months you can pay your bills but others you have nothing left in the bank). You can be required to apply for jobs that are so far away you are spending half your wages getting there because you don't drive - unless you have the motability part of PIP and happen to have a license - because you can't afford a car on UC.

And if you don't take these jobs when you are offered you are punished for it.
I think many people who don't have any disabilities find these work conditions punishing - they take a toll on you physically and mentally. There are far more of these minimum wage workhouse style jobs (yes slight exaggeration) to fill than there are anything else.
People work these jobs until they can't cope any more and then are told they are lazy scroungers by people doing less than they were doing for more money.

Somehow, don't ask me why, but I get the feeling that there is a lot of missing information here.

Too ill to work but not too ill to spend day in, and day out arguing with random strangers on a forum.

I think that would give anyone mental health issues. If only that energy were diverted to doing something more constructive.

I am not looking for the perfect job 😂 I am looking for any job that I can pace physically around that I do not trigger my chronic fatigue syndrome and therefore end up bed bound unable to work or look after my children, and also a job that doesn't make me so anxious that I have frequent panic attacks both at work and when I think about having to go to work because when that happens my whole life becomes panic, doing OCD rituals, insomnia, aggressive and violent meltdowns, and I start behaving extremely unwell - think regularly self harming violently, taking overdoses, behaving abusively to my loved ones by screaming at them at the drop of hat due all the autistic meltdowns I have because I am so overwhelmed, I develop paranoia and if pushed the extreme I start hearing things I become a very real suicide risk and risk hurting someone else in the process due to my behaviour ( once ran out into oncoming traffic and the car had to swerve) . So no I can not make sacrifices and put up with things that trigger the above to happen.. I have to find a job that enables me to work that does not trigger the above level of mental distress. My mental health becomes life threatening quickly.

My work history is extensive. Since I left school I have got job after job where I have worked for 8 weeks and the above has happened and I have had to stop working, then I would apply again and repeat. I have tried office work, retail, bar work, waitressing, customer service calls, charity fundraising. The only thing I have ever managed to hold down was childminding which I can't go back to now because every time I have tried it sets off my fatigue condition really badly and I can't care for the children properly. I also had to move to a tiny property when I was ill so i couldn't run a minding business from the house. Also my MH is significantly worse now and the risk of me having an autistic meltdown caring for other people's children is fairly high which I am sure we both agree is massively inappropriate. It's inappropriate with my own children. Not getting that sick so I don't behave like that around my own children is paramount to me and that means staying mentally healthy.

I could reply to emails at home. Please by all means try and find me a job where all I have to do is reply to emails but I do not have to talk to anyone including team mates on the phone. I do not have to do video calls. It also needs to be flexible as I have to stop working and take many breaks to manage overwhelm. Both those things cause me so much anxiety that I can't even attend many medical appointments because I have a meltdown before the call. You'll struggle to find something. I look for jobs all the time. That job also needs to be flexible as I there are usually several days a month where my fatigue flares up so and I can't get out of bed and I also have severe PMDD so 5 days every month I fall into serious crisis and starting hurting myself. Honestly if you find this magic job I will apply right now.

I am not looking for the perfect job. I am looking forward a job that doesn't make me dangerously unwell.

I also don't know why you think any work colleagues I may have, while I go around trying to make sacrifices and push myself to do a job unsuitable for my needs, should have to put up with working with someone as unreliable and to be frank unstable as I become when unwell. Would you really want to work with me like that? Because I doubt it.

Always is. It’s the only way they can make the ‘facts’ fit the narrative.

I said it earlier but will say it again.

ADHD is NOT a mental health condition. It is a neurological disorder. Just as dementia or Parkinsons for example. I'm sure people don't question why PIP is awarded for those.

Are disabled/sick people not allowed to use SM now ? Seemingly being able to use a keyboard means you can work !! A current thread is also suggesting that benefits shouldn’t be used for anything other than essentials - any surplus should be handed back and sick/disabled people shouldn’t be allowed ‘luxuries’.Perhaps they should all be fed on gruel and made to stand in the corner in the dark until the sweet release of death !!

They don’t. But it’s fashionable to call out ADHD as somehow fake isn’t it? And as I pointed out upthread ADHD and indeed any level of mental health condition has to be severe and treated at secondary care level to qualify for PIP. The level of ignorance around what an actual mental health condition is, and what disability benefits are designed for is quite breathtaking.

the biggest thing to torys could do to get people back into work is to pay them properly, none of this uc crap where they randomly decide your not getting any money because the day has a y in it.
proper wages, affordable housing. 90% of the country doesnt know how much money they are going to get next month or if they are still going to have an expensive roof over their heads and they wonder why so many people are depressed and anxious?