Same job without line management- different pay

[Iightingseed]

Moved to AIBU
Anyone from NHS/HR?
I work in the NHS and have the same job description and carry out the same role as my manager but without line management of one member of staff (me!). In terms of some of the duties I’m also expected to do a bit in terms of meetings/admin. Although, they are in both job descriptions.
Would line management alone constitute a whole different banding or should there be any other differences? Any advice welcome. Should there be more differences than this or AIBU?

I've only ever worked in the private sector, but in my area line management responsibilities would be a reasonable differentiator between levels.

In education, line management responsibility is the main difference between TLR bands 1 and 2.

Same here, not sure how the voting works.

www.nhsemployers.org/publications/nhs-job-evaluation-handbook

Factor 9 on the job evaluation handbook is about line management. They don't score for how many staff you manage, but if you have that responsibility it does add points and can push you into a higher band.

I'm civil service and that's how it works here. Line management responsibility adds a band.

There's also a higher non management grade, that's one above 'normal' and actually the same band as the line management role, but instead of being a manager, you need to have achieved an extra qualification and undertake more complex work. You wouldn't get it just for a few meetings and admin.

No idea how it works in the NHS but managing people is often the bit of people's roles with the greatest potential to be challenging or stressful, so I would usually expect it to be reflected in salaries.

I’m in the nhs and the line management doesn’t affect the band in my directorate. I mean on the same band, some of us manage staff and some don’t. If jobs were rebranded, it is more likely that the ones with people management would come down, rather than yours going up.

Having said that, it’s probably worth asking what you would need to do to be working at that band for future opportunities?

Like a Technical Manager

I used to work somewhere that a same level people manager had around 160 people reporting to them (through other managers and team leaders etc) but I had no one

Thanks Cheeesus.
I suppose I feel this way because my line manager doesn’t necessarily ‘manage me’ although they are meant to. I very rarely have 1:1’s, no feedback or guidance in my role, no service improvements etc. Just seems all they do extra is sign my annual leave form.

Someone has to be the manager though, even if you don't see your roles as being that different.

As PP said, if you're looking for promotion, focus on how you can achieve it rather than questioning someone else's role.

Oh that’s rubbish. Maybe try and get some effort out of them, to put together PDP stuff etc.

OK, but that suggests that your line manager may be doing her job badly. Not that the role itself shouldn't be at a higher grade.

Pay grades are usually based on the role and not the person.

Thanks Doyoumind

I’m not really looking for promotion but do feel a bit peeved that I essentially do the same job and my manager doesn’t seem to fulfill many of their line management duties. Just seems a little unfair.

So apply for a higher banded job.

Life, and particularly work life, is rarely fair though.

Managers who don't manage are aplenty IME. If they aren't properly fulfilling their role, this is something you should raise with them.

Banding in the NHS isn't solely based on line management responsibilities, but if your job is main job plus admin and hers is main job plus management, I can see how they'd come out as different bands. Some bands have extremely different roles within the same band - band 7 covers a hugely diverse number of posts, some with management responsibilities for 20+ people, some with no management responsibilities but highly specialised training and skills etc.

You can ask for rebanding if you think it's wrong, though that's a slow process in my Trust at least. Somewhere in the depths of the NHS England website within the Agenda for Change info there are detailed descriptions of each job and of how they are banded as they are, so you can find evidence there if your band is wrong. But from what you've said it doesn't sound so much like the banding is wrong, as that your line manager isn't actually doing the stuff that makes her role a different band. Which is a different issue.

You are entitled to, and should definitely push for, an annual review/appraisal/IPR. NHS are usually really hot on this, and managers are being pushed constantly from above to make sure they're hitting targets for documenting this is done. I'm surprised he's not doing anything like this.

If you're not having them, push for one. Make sure he earns his money by doing the stuff his job role actually involves.

I’m NHS, my line manager is the same band as me and she also manages 10 other people. We think it’s unfair that she’s the same band and think she should be the band above the rest of us. The only job difference is that she gets 7.5 hours non-clinical each week as line manager…she does a lot more than just manage us as part of her management role

I do have an annual appraisal since they make sure that box is ticked. However, nothing comes of this. My manager is also based within a different hospital within the same trust and has never been to my place of department or I feel has any understanding of my day to day work.

I can see why she probably should be the band above. However, my line manager doesn’t seem to do a lot more than manage me. Otherwise, I would probably feel a bit different.