Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think baby formula should come in plain packaging?

292 replies

Yoyoyozo · 17/04/2024 04:42

Fancy packaging is used to inflate prices and extract more money from parents with phrases like 'premium' plastered on the tin. Parents shouldn't be made to feel guilty for not buying the most expensive, well-marketed brand.

Yes, parents can make their own informed decisions, but clever marketing is proven to undermine this.

A report published in The Lancet (2016) unveiled that aggressive marketing of breastmilk substitutes is undermining efforts to improve breastfeeding rates

https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(15)01044-2.pdf

No, this is not equating infant formula to tobacco! The aim is to prevent exploitative marketing practices that undermine access to impartial information on infant feeding.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
fixies · 17/04/2024 14:26

No. I think there are already enough restrictions on formula. It's not poison. I breast fed a bit and pumped but only up to 3/4 months. I always had some formula. No matter what was on the packaging I would have moved to formula. It had nothing to do with 'society' or marketing. I just HATED breastfeeding. I was crap at it, got non
pleasure from it and basically became an angry unhappy person trying to.

Formula feeding is a legitimate choice and not just as a last resort. People who want or need to choose this method should have access to choice as they would with any other product. Formula companies aren't allowed to even give advice on formula feeding without talking about 'breast milk substitute' . This makes you feel like a complete failure if you don't breastfeed. Why can't you get discounts/ bogof/ loyalty points on formula? It's rediculous. You can buy wine / sweets etc at 3 for 2 but not food to sustain a baby's life. Punishing people financially for bottle feeding isn't going to increase breastfeeding. Neither is plain packaging. There is very little difference in price between formula so I don't think words like 'premium' make a difference.

What women need is an honest analysis of formula ingredients to help them choose the best thing. For example, is the one that prevents reflux effective? But no one will ever do that because it's seen as 'promoting formula'.

So no, I don't agree. The best thing would be better information on formula, its ingredients and how to use it. I honestly think a softer approach with formula would actually support breastfeeding. It would take the pressure off if women weren't made to feel terrible for substituting the occasional feed.

fixies · 17/04/2024 14:33

PigeonPigPie · 17/04/2024 07:27

I completely agree.
If you agree breastfeeding is the biological normal, formula feeding does come with health risks, which should be made clearer to parents so they can make informed decisions. Formula packaging shouldn't be allowed to make claims that are backed by shoddy evidence and should have to make clear the risks of using the product.
Some people I'm sure are going to take that as attacking their choice - but I'm not, I'm attacking the companies for being dishonest and deliberately misleading.

What are formula companies being dishonest about and what evidence do you have to back it up? Re health risks... have you ever tried to find out about bottle feeding? It's a bloody nightmare . Formula companies aren't allowed to give advice without first shoving some breast feeding mantra at you first. It's really hard to find out about formula/ sterilising/ amounts. I ended up buying an ancient copy of Gina Ford as you need to go back decades to find anyone that will just set it out for you. Lack of information is a health risk.

fixies · 17/04/2024 14:37

berksandbeyond · 17/04/2024 07:37

I wish the breastapo would have a day off ffs. Well done, you’re better than me, is that what you want?

Don't forget their children are also better... organic, free range. You've also let them down and possibly shortened their life expectancy and career prospects. Perhaps a picture of a destitute child and feckless mother should be attached too?

SouthLondonMum22 · 17/04/2024 14:54

I’ll be formula feeding from birth no matter what the formula packaging looks like.

Resources really should go towards more help for those after birth who want to breastfeed getting more support rather than attempting to force those who don’t want to breastfeed.

peachgreen · 17/04/2024 14:56

I honestly think a softer approach with formula would actually support breastfeeding. It would take the pressure off if women weren't made to feel terrible for substituting the occasional feed.

Completely agree. Once I "gave in" and "resorted" to FFing I was so utterly broken and demoralised that I couldn't even consider combi feeding. If I hadn't had to wait until I was so desperate, if I had been able to top up with formula before my daughter became so dangerously dehydrated and I became so completely sleep-deprived from the endless attempts to feed her all day and all night, I think I would have been able to carry on with at least some breastfeeding. As it was, nobody was allowed to even SUGGEST that to me and I felt like a total failure when I had to admit that breastfeeding was (quite literally) making both me and my baby ill.

theprincessthepea · 17/04/2024 14:58

When I read the post I thought op meant that the plain packaging would almost encourage formula to become a non competitive item as it’s an essential item if one cannot breastfeed because there is no other alternative. Babies can’t have solids or even water for 6 months.

With food, if someone has an allergy there are alternatives. If you can afford the different price points - great. But some people also prefer breastfeeding because in the long run it’s cheaper.

I breast fed both - with my first got an infection so had to stop bf after a month. I’m grateful formula is an option.

BF is hard and something else I wish there was more support on is mums diet whilst BF. I had skipped breakfast one morning and barely had enough milk to feed. The NHS should provide breastfeeding class prenatal and it should be followed up once baby is born for those that bf.

FuckOffTom · 17/04/2024 15:03

theprincessthepea · 17/04/2024 14:58

When I read the post I thought op meant that the plain packaging would almost encourage formula to become a non competitive item as it’s an essential item if one cannot breastfeed because there is no other alternative. Babies can’t have solids or even water for 6 months.

With food, if someone has an allergy there are alternatives. If you can afford the different price points - great. But some people also prefer breastfeeding because in the long run it’s cheaper.

I breast fed both - with my first got an infection so had to stop bf after a month. I’m grateful formula is an option.

BF is hard and something else I wish there was more support on is mums diet whilst BF. I had skipped breakfast one morning and barely had enough milk to feed. The NHS should provide breastfeeding class prenatal and it should be followed up once baby is born for those that bf.

That’s how I read it. OP was aiming her post at formula companies and then everyone got upset because they thought she was personally attacking them.

Vod · 17/04/2024 15:07

I think part of the problem is that OP waded in on behalf of low income formula families, with no indication that she's got any data at all to indicate what they actually want. It was simply an assumption that her views coincide with the cohort.

This is important, because people speaking over the poorest and making assumptions is problematic. Too often, lower income people get what others decide would be good for them without getting a chance to speak about what they'd actually prefer.

margolyes · 17/04/2024 15:15

Mrsjayy · 17/04/2024 13:58

I also didn't produce milk to feed a premature baby even expressing didn't seem to produce any, acting faux confused and flummoxed at a random TV programme when you know nothing about circumstances and also pulling up copy and pasted research suits your narrative.

I didn't paste any research. Just was an opinion.

Twentyfoursevenn · 17/04/2024 15:25

The bloody NHS are undermining breastfeeding efforts more than cow and gate! They harp on about "breast is best" but wont do frig-all to encourage or support breastfeeding mothers

My first DD was born back in 1999, back then midwives actually helped with latching on, positioning, pain / mastitis etc. When they did their newborns visits, witnessing baby latch on and feed was something they expected to check before they left.

My 2nd DD was born in 2022, with tongue tie diagnosed at birth. I struggled in the hospital for 2 days trying to feed her, asked for help multiple times, the only person who would help (a midwife who rolled her eyes and got all huffy about it) literally grabbed baby in one hand, my sore blistered breast with the other, smashed them both together, and walked away without a word. It really hurt and I felt so humiliated.
I was still having issues when we were discharged on a Sunday, and was told to "come to the breastfeeding hub" which was held once a week on a Tuesday, miles from my house.

I asked again and again for help at every health visitor and midwife appt, baby was just not latching on properly or feeding right no matter what I did, my boobs were bleeding and so painful, and nobody gave a damn. "Look up positions on YouTube" one said, shrugging me off.

I was told by the health visitors that baby would not be considered to be referred for her tongue-tie fixing unless we attended the breastfeeding hub on three separate occasions to show baby had either lost or not gained any weight. So basically they expect you to starve and dehydrate a newborn for three weeks minimum, before you're eligible to be added to a six month waiting list to see a consultant. Fucking madness.

By time baby was 3.5 months I was done. She had constant wind / colic pain from inhaling air while trying to feed due to her tongue tie, would throw up most of her feeds and was just constantly miserable and crying. It was a horrible time.

The moment I switched her to bottles, she banged on weight and grew rapidly, the wind / colic cleared, and she was just so much happier and content.

Friends who live in different areas have been through similar experiences, and a relative 100s of miles away up north has had the same. This is not a local problem unique to my local NHS, its a national one.

Frankly, my opinion and experience is that the NHS are doing alot more to fuck up breastfeeding uptake than all the formula milk firms combined.

T1Dmama · 17/04/2024 15:29

Mothers have a choice whether to breast feed or formula feed, they don’t even need to go down the aisle with the formula in…. I walk past it everyday and couldn’t even tell you what the packaging looks like!

SpidersAreShitheads · 17/04/2024 15:30

I think this is a really difficult issue to discuss honestly because there can be a lot of finger pointing, plus mums who used formula often get defensive at what they (often rightly) perceive as criticism.

I can only speak from personal experience but support for breast feeding in this country is abysmal.

I had premature twins - they had no sucking reflex as they were too early, and had to be fed via a dropper. I hadn't actually realised that I had any particular feelings about breastfeeding but when they were in SCBU in the Intensive Care section, I suddenly realised that I really wanted to breastfeed. I couldn't pick them up or cuddle them, and it felt as if breastfeeding was the one thing that I COULD do to help. I can vividly remember how important it suddenly felt to me.

Fuck me, it was hard going. The vast majority of mums in SCBU would have had to pump because the babies were too small/early/sick. There was only one place to pump and that was a chair behind a curtain in the kitchen. Cold, draughty, and with people whooshing past every minute - it's hard enough to pump but in those circumstances it felt almost impossible.

There was a lack of expertise in the hospital for breastfeeding - allegedly there was an expert, just the one, but she wasn't ever on SCBU - I'm guessing she was maybe in the main maternity ward only? As we moved down through the dependency levels in SCBU I managed to introduce breastfeeding but it was hard to know what to do with twins. Because they were so tiny, they struggled to get my nipples into their mouth. And one had really severe reflux. It was a really difficult time.

On another occasion not long after I the birth, I had a proper meal for the first time. I was sick because I'd not eaten full meals at all during my pregnancy due to horrible pregnancy sickness throughout, so when I picked up a McDonalds on the way home from the hospital, it made me vomit as I wasn't used to the high fat. No one knew what to do with the breast milk or whether it was contaminated because I'd thrown up. No one knew how long the breast milk would be contaminated for. I had to stand outside in a corridor holding my bag of milk bottles while they had a meeting to decide what to do about me. I was very hormonal and honestly just sat and cried.

I was determined to establish breastfeeding but I was struggling. They kept trying to get me to switch to formula "because it will just be easier with twins". The whole breast is best message wasn't mentioned, EVER. Lots and lots of information available in SCBU about the different bottles and the various formulas, but virtually nothing about breastfeeding apart from one tatty old poster about how to get a baby to latch.

One of the nurses even said to me "don't you WANT to take your babies home?!" when I said I wanted to persist with trying to breastfeed.

The only help I had was from two Indian health care assistants - they said where they grew up in India, breastfeeding was par for the course. They were really positive and supportive - but their advice was limited to just trying to cram my nipples into the babies' mouths!

Once home, there was no support for breastfeeding or advice from anyone. The health visitor seemed clueless how to deal with prem babies or twins (not going to even get into her suggestions on how to wean which involved sterilising the spoon between each mouthful!)

I really really wish now that I'd kept breastfeeding for longer. I managed to get to about 3/4 months with just the occasional formula top up before giving up completely. Those three months or so were a bloody struggle. I had two very small babies that needed feeding every few hours and it was just so hard. There weren't any local support groups. I am sure that if I'd been given good advice and support at the start, I would have found it easier. And I really could have done with ongoing help as everything seemed to be written for babies that were bigger/different developmentally to mine.

I know there are women who choose to formula feed, and that's fine. But as PP have said, some of those reasons will revolve around social stigmas, and also the practicalities of breastfeeding.

Other women may want to breastfeed but can't manage it - but probably with better quality support, lots more might be able to. I know now there are lots of different types of help for women who struggle to breastfeed - but none of those were ever mentioned to me when I was having a hard time.

We shouldn't shy away from acknowledging that breast is usually best - but if we're going to do this, then there HAS to be better support for women trying to breastfeed. And other measures put in place to reduce the social stigma/misconceptions - including breastfeeding mums being able to feed their baby in any place where they'd be able to give them a bottle.

By constantly slating formula providers and putting in draconian measures, all that happens is that women who aren't able to breastfeed feel even more of a failure (you're not!!!!), and women who have opted to formula feed voluntarily are made to feel like shitty mums (also not true!!).

The focus on formula providers is looking in the wrong direction - the emphasis should be on support and help for new mums. No one gives a shit what colour the packaging is.

Hoplolly · 17/04/2024 15:30

That’s how I read it. OP was aiming her post at formula companies and then everyone got upset because they thought she was personally attacking them.

No. I don't think many people see it as a personal attack, they are responding to the AIBU question as posed in the title of the thread.

Yes, the OP is being unreasonable.

SpidersAreShitheads · 17/04/2024 15:34

Twentyfoursevenn · 17/04/2024 15:25

The bloody NHS are undermining breastfeeding efforts more than cow and gate! They harp on about "breast is best" but wont do frig-all to encourage or support breastfeeding mothers

My first DD was born back in 1999, back then midwives actually helped with latching on, positioning, pain / mastitis etc. When they did their newborns visits, witnessing baby latch on and feed was something they expected to check before they left.

My 2nd DD was born in 2022, with tongue tie diagnosed at birth. I struggled in the hospital for 2 days trying to feed her, asked for help multiple times, the only person who would help (a midwife who rolled her eyes and got all huffy about it) literally grabbed baby in one hand, my sore blistered breast with the other, smashed them both together, and walked away without a word. It really hurt and I felt so humiliated.
I was still having issues when we were discharged on a Sunday, and was told to "come to the breastfeeding hub" which was held once a week on a Tuesday, miles from my house.

I asked again and again for help at every health visitor and midwife appt, baby was just not latching on properly or feeding right no matter what I did, my boobs were bleeding and so painful, and nobody gave a damn. "Look up positions on YouTube" one said, shrugging me off.

I was told by the health visitors that baby would not be considered to be referred for her tongue-tie fixing unless we attended the breastfeeding hub on three separate occasions to show baby had either lost or not gained any weight. So basically they expect you to starve and dehydrate a newborn for three weeks minimum, before you're eligible to be added to a six month waiting list to see a consultant. Fucking madness.

By time baby was 3.5 months I was done. She had constant wind / colic pain from inhaling air while trying to feed due to her tongue tie, would throw up most of her feeds and was just constantly miserable and crying. It was a horrible time.

The moment I switched her to bottles, she banged on weight and grew rapidly, the wind / colic cleared, and she was just so much happier and content.

Friends who live in different areas have been through similar experiences, and a relative 100s of miles away up north has had the same. This is not a local problem unique to my local NHS, its a national one.

Frankly, my opinion and experience is that the NHS are doing alot more to fuck up breastfeeding uptake than all the formula milk firms combined.

We cross posted.

My problems were completely different to yours, but I encountered exactly the same attitudes and barriers. I'm sorry you had such a shit time.

Completely agree with what you say re the attitudes and approach within the NHS being one of the biggest problems for women breastfeeding.

Vod · 17/04/2024 15:56

So basically they expect you to starve and dehydrate a newborn for three weeks minimum, before you're eligible to be added to a six month waiting list to see a consultant. Fucking madness.

That's piss poor. I genuinely don't know why we even bother providing a service as bad as that.

Tootsweets84 · 17/04/2024 15:56

Why don't we just have shops keep it under the counter. Then all those silly formula feeding mums will have to queue up in shame and quickly hide their dirty little secret purchase in a brown paper bag.

Or we could just stop being ridiculous and accept that some women can't or don't want to breastfeed and formula is a completely safe and valid alternative. I don't know a single woman who has been swayed to formula feed by the pretty packaging. I do know a few who couldn't breastfeed for various reasons and struggled to afford formula - not helped by the fact that shops are not allowed to include it in offers. There's a reason it has security tags on and it's not because people like the boxes. For the record, I exclusively fed 2/4 of my children and would have liked to have breastfed all of them (because it's free and much more convenient!), but sometimes things don't go the way we want.

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 17/04/2024 16:12

peachgreen · 17/04/2024 14:56

I honestly think a softer approach with formula would actually support breastfeeding. It would take the pressure off if women weren't made to feel terrible for substituting the occasional feed.

Completely agree. Once I "gave in" and "resorted" to FFing I was so utterly broken and demoralised that I couldn't even consider combi feeding. If I hadn't had to wait until I was so desperate, if I had been able to top up with formula before my daughter became so dangerously dehydrated and I became so completely sleep-deprived from the endless attempts to feed her all day and all night, I think I would have been able to carry on with at least some breastfeeding. As it was, nobody was allowed to even SUGGEST that to me and I felt like a total failure when I had to admit that breastfeeding was (quite literally) making both me and my baby ill.

Effective combination feeding isn't talked about at all. And it could allow lots more women to breastfeed longer than they would have, allowing babies to access a lot of the benefits of breastmilk alongside adequate calories.

And real experts know this. I was really surprised when I saw a lactation consultant who advised (after the tongue tie was resolved and baby had finally latched at over a week old) to top up with formula after each breastfeed. We've been combination feeding for 8 months now, either boob and formula, or expressed breast milk. But the NCT sessions I went to before made it sound like formula was basically poison, and you had to just have baby on the boob all the time and all would be well. But I had to pay hundreds of pounds to see her...

As for the other poster's comment about breast being the biological norm...you know what's also biologically normal? High infant mortality.

Cakeandcardio · 17/04/2024 16:47

Mumoftwo1312 · 17/04/2024 06:00

Formula is available across the developed world but breastfeeding rates vary widely in those same countries.

We are terrible here at it (in the uk). Nearly half of babies aren't breastfed at all by 6-8 weeks.

I could rant at length about why that is (there are more reasons than the main two I mentioned above), but it's not the beauty of formula packaging.

Suggesting it is, belittles the real grief and regret many mums feel when they feel they "failed" to breastfeed. You're implying that mums are that silly and frivolous that a shiny blue box would lead them to make decisions they profoundly regret.

The formula is a safety net which makes dropping breastfeeding seem easier, yes, but that's regardless of what it looks like.

I fully agree!! My baby wasn't breastfed but it wasn't through my lack of trying and I felt a real grief because of it. The packaging of the formula never entered my head.

Mumoftwo1312 · 17/04/2024 17:07

Earwiggoearwiggoearwiggo · 17/04/2024 16:12

Effective combination feeding isn't talked about at all. And it could allow lots more women to breastfeed longer than they would have, allowing babies to access a lot of the benefits of breastmilk alongside adequate calories.

And real experts know this. I was really surprised when I saw a lactation consultant who advised (after the tongue tie was resolved and baby had finally latched at over a week old) to top up with formula after each breastfeed. We've been combination feeding for 8 months now, either boob and formula, or expressed breast milk. But the NCT sessions I went to before made it sound like formula was basically poison, and you had to just have baby on the boob all the time and all would be well. But I had to pay hundreds of pounds to see her...

As for the other poster's comment about breast being the biological norm...you know what's also biologically normal? High infant mortality.

I think the health care professionals do say this though about mixed feeding, it's no secret.

I mixed fed/am mixed feeding both mine, dc1 till she was 2.5, and every nurse, midwife, health visitor seemed relieved when that was my answer to that question.

Like you I'm a firm believer that "extended" breastfeeding [by UK standards] has loads of benefits but is much easier to attain if you combi feed.

The HCPs are always pleased to hear it if you say you're combi feeding because it means your baby is less likely to present with weight gain issues, and also less likely to present with breathing/gastro problems. Best of both worlds.

Mumoftwo1312 · 17/04/2024 17:09

Fwiw op has fundamentally misunderstood the stats about cot death and respiratory problems etc she mentioned upthread.

Formula doesn't increase the chance of those issues (as if it's some kind of poison). It's that breastfeeding decreases the risk of them. The distinction may be beyond op but it makes a difference: with combi feeding you get many of those risk reductions.

YankSplaining · 17/04/2024 17:18

@Mumoftwo1312 - no, they won’t all give one of those two answers. I quit breastfeeding because I needed to go back on my psychiatric meds.

willywallaby · 17/04/2024 17:24

Mumoftwo1312 · 17/04/2024 17:09

Fwiw op has fundamentally misunderstood the stats about cot death and respiratory problems etc she mentioned upthread.

Formula doesn't increase the chance of those issues (as if it's some kind of poison). It's that breastfeeding decreases the risk of them. The distinction may be beyond op but it makes a difference: with combi feeding you get many of those risk reductions.

Edited

That's a matter of perspective. The risk is higher with formula feeding than with breastfeeding. If you see breastfeeding as default then formula increases the risk. If you see formula feeding as default then breastfeeding decreases the risk. But you can't definitively state it's one or the other, it's sort of both.

HelloGoodby · 17/04/2024 17:35

I don’t understand the FF feeling like failure. Around me everyone FF I was weird for breastfeeding and especially weird still feeding over 6 months.
Everyone around me was desperate for me to stop, you can bond with a baby without feeding them.
Only one midwife asked how I was feeding, nobody else cared. Obviously things have changed in 20 years.
If advertising didn’t work they wouldn’t spend so much money on it. People are obsessed with UPF. Formula is a UPF.

FudgeSundae · 17/04/2024 17:42

Mumoftwo1312 · 17/04/2024 17:09

Fwiw op has fundamentally misunderstood the stats about cot death and respiratory problems etc she mentioned upthread.

Formula doesn't increase the chance of those issues (as if it's some kind of poison). It's that breastfeeding decreases the risk of them. The distinction may be beyond op but it makes a difference: with combi feeding you get many of those risk reductions.

Edited

This, but actually not even that: what the studies show is that formula feeding mothers have babies with more of these issues than breastfeeding mothers. That may sound the same but actually these groups are different in a number of ways and that means that you can’t extrapolate. There are virtually no randomised trials because of ethical and logistical issues.

CelesteCunningham · 17/04/2024 17:45

People are obsessed with UPF. Formula is a UPF.

Which just demonstrates that UPF is a bit of an ill defined nonsense term, a handy rule of thumb to help us eat fewer processed foods, not an absolute to be followed at all costs.

Swipe left for the next trending thread