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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask DDs teacher for more work for her?

118 replies

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 15:28

DD is in year 6 (standard state school, class of 32) - so less than a term left at primary school. She has her SATs coming up in the next few weeks so I guess everyone is very busy getting the whole cohort ready for that. We have parents evening tonight and DD has repeatedly asked me to tell her teacher that she is bored in class and that she doesn’t think the work is stimulating or interesting enough and she wants more challenging work. As a bit of background to this I think DD is probably quite bright- she has been scoring 114/5 in her practice SAT papers and was recently offered an academic scholarship to the local girls private school (she won’t be going but that’s another story) Historically the teacher has been sitting her with less able/challenging pupils and she has been helping them with their work which I’m ok about because it’s a nice thing for her to do and helps her with her people skills. So would I be unreasonable to pass on her message about being bored/unchallenged to her teacher? I feel bad saying it because I’m sure her teacher is already working flat out getting everything ready for SATs and also I don’t want to seem like I’m being critical of the teacher (who I might add is also a parent in my other DCs year so I’m really cautious about offending her!) I also think if DD was really bored and unchallenged wouldn’t it have already been picked up? Maybe I’m over thinking this? - 20 years after I left school and I still get nervous around teachers! Many thanks for reading- all thoughts appreciated. I don’t like to mention it to any RL friends.

OP posts:
MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 16:13

BodyKeepingScore · 16/04/2024 16:12

But learning isn't solely the remit of the school? Parents have a responsibility to provide opportunities for bright curious minds outside of school, perhaps even more so than the school themselves? Surely a bright curious mind wouldn't be bored if they had regular trips to a museum for example and active engaged parents?

We do our best with the time we have! But she does spend 5 days a week at school so it would be nice if she was stimulated there too….

OP posts:
LutonBeds · 16/04/2024 16:14

InAMillion · 16/04/2024 15:50

Such a MN comment

Clearly there are reasons

I suppose it is! Just curious as to why someone would put their kid in for an exam if they couldn’t afford them to go to the school. I assumed OP meant full scholarship which is why I didn’t think money would be the issue.

I know it’s one of my DFs biggest regrets that we a) don’t live in a grammar area and b) he couldn’t afford private for us.

BodyKeepingScore · 16/04/2024 16:14

@MissDollyMix that wasn't a criticism at all of your approach with your DD, it was a general comment re children on the whole

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 16:15

ArlaJay · 16/04/2024 16:11

Independence, resilience and motivation are a great learning ethos to develop. This is something she can develop and will be much more useful ( than a higher level/more work) to her future.

Year 6 is boring. One if my DC’s summed it up with “oh WHY do I have to practice, again and again and again, all of the things I can already do…”

Education is a mess.

Agree with all of this 100%

OP posts:
UndecidedAboutEverything · 16/04/2024 16:21

@BodyKeepingScore well, this is a generation of parents who have had to cope with the burden of teaching their kids themselves during covid lockdown and all its aftermath often whilst continuing to work themselves and almost all the kids I know spent a lot less time being “curious” about the world during Covid. So there’s that.

And it’s really not the case for many kids, that if your brain is paralysed by boredom from 8.45 to 3.30 aside from the small excitement offered by break time or PE that you’ll come bounding home eager to crack on with a home learning assignment. Especially as many kids have to go to after school club until 6pm while their parents work.

And the state primary schools in my area simply don’t have the capacity to differentiate for more able students. They are dealing with classroom evacuations for kids with unmanageable behaviour issues, or supporting undiagnosed or poorly supported SEN, and a host of higher priorities. School is NOTHING like it used to be. It’s hell now.

waterrat · 16/04/2024 16:24

@BodyKeepingScore yes - parent input is important - but how is that relevant to the criticism of the year 6 cirriculum?. My children spend a long time in school and it really matters how they experience that.

If they are so bored they are in tears - that matters. If the cirriculum is pointless and leaves them resenting learning/ education - that matters.

As it happens my kids need to relax and play after school as they are so bored/ restless from sitting down all day - I personally prioritise outdoor play for them - but there are also lots of children going home to tower blocks and stressed parents on low incomes, or in childcare from 730am before school to 6pm after school - for all these children it really matters if school is deathly dull as there may well be no other time for them to engage in learning/ play.

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 16:25

BodyKeepingScore · 16/04/2024 16:14

@MissDollyMix that wasn't a criticism at all of your approach with your DD, it was a general comment re children on the whole

Thanks for clarifying. It’s something that DH and I have discussed a lot recently.
Getting the right balance feels hard. This parenting lark ain’t easy!

OP posts:
Crunchymum · 16/04/2024 16:26

I assume she is doing all the CGP SAT's "stretch" books? (it's not technically a one size fits all but more of a two size fits all)

It will all be over in a month so I'd buy some workbooks for the time being and once SAT's are done ask the teacher to direct you on what sort of things could challenge your DC (but just direct you, not to have to do any additional work themselves)

Undertherockpool · 16/04/2024 16:30

BodyKeepingScore · 16/04/2024 16:12

But learning isn't solely the remit of the school? Parents have a responsibility to provide opportunities for bright curious minds outside of school, perhaps even more so than the school themselves? Surely a bright curious mind wouldn't be bored if they had regular trips to a museum for example and active engaged parents?

I do wish schools would make up their mind though. Kids are not to be taught to read and write before school as teachers are keen to teach them ‘their way’. But now we are being told that if we’ve got bright kids it’s up to us to ensure they’re adequately challenged academically at home?

JudgeJ · 16/04/2024 16:33

UndecidedAboutEverything · 16/04/2024 15:58

@ilovesooty this only works if the teacher lets her read instead of participating in class teaching and activities. Being forced to sit and listen while the teacher has you listening to grammar lessons you fully absorbed two years ago, and practising basic maths over and over and over, means you can’t easily opt out of class and indulge in a good book. It should be possible, I agree! But I don’t know schools that allow this.

The alternative is to behave REALLY badly and rip a cupboard door off or punch the TA or run out of the classroom screaming and screaming and running round the playground; then you get taken out of class to calm down and you can ask to read in a quiet place. Several of my dd’s classmates had success with this approach.

As a marker of GCSE Maths papers I am constantly amazed at how many marks are lost on the first couple of pages, the 'easy' stuff even by the best candidates, that's why these topics are revised, more of a reminder, boring as it seems.

goldenretrievermum5 · 16/04/2024 16:36

It’s a really good thing that she’s bored - it means that she’s comfortable with her knowledge of the content. YABVU to needlessly bother the teacher - exams and revision in general are boring but she needs to learn to deal with it. Plenty more exams years still to go!

toothypeggys · 16/04/2024 16:37

One thing I would ask is are you sure she's actually getting it all?

When I was a teacher I often was told by parents that the child was not challenged by the class content and found it too easy. While that may have been true in earlier years, their years of staring out of the window and not listening meant that in some areas they had fallen behind.

Eg one child whose parents were constantly contacting me that they needed pushing but they were one of only 5 children in the class who could not do long multiplication.

While they were very good at critical thinking and naturally intelligent, they weren't actually breezing through the content like everyone assumed because they'd stopped listening and engaging.

I spent so much time and effort trying to support this child but in practice they were essentially acting as one of my lower ability children.

This narrative that they were naturally gifted and didn't need to try actually meant they had no idea how to cope when they came across something they didn't easily understand with zero effort.

Assuming they genuinely are getting it all easily then I would also say... Often there is a bit of a misunderstanding about learning and lessons. E.g. when a child is off sick often we are asked to provide them the work we will do and the parent seems to think that sitting and doing the work will just teach them how to do it. But without the input in class and actual teaching, they can't do the work because they've not been taught how to do it.

So unless someone is teaching them, giving them more work to do isn't particularly helpful other than to practice and consolidate skills they already know.

If the class are revising long division and your child can do it backwards with their eyes closed standing on their head then giving them more work (ie more long divisions) isn't really very useful. If they can do 20 of them they can do 50.

If they understand it but make mistakes then yes they need more practice but they can also just create their own questions to practice with at that point. They can push themselves to try larger number or decimal numbers but in the end, if they can do it and have practiced then they can do it.

To actually stretch them and give them work that challenges them they need something they don't already know which is going to involve either direct teacher input or independent research. The former is not an option at this point but the latter is in some cases.

Your DD is the one who wants more work so to some extent she is going to need to take control of her learning herself. Assuming your DD is high flying, it's just not possible at SATS time that she can be given that independent input by the teacher.

I would suggest coming up with a list of things your DD can do quietly when she's finished and run this by the teacher to check it's ok. The teacher wont need to prepare and mark extra work but you're giving DD direction, encouragement and showing her the importance of learning for fun and improving for her self.

Examples:

Reading/Writing:

  • Come up with a statement about a character or event in the book you are reading that you absolutely do not agree with but someone else might think is true eg "Tyler is lonely in class" and find three pieces of evidence that it is wrong. Then as much evidence as you can that it's right. Form a debate with both sides arguing their case.
  • Imagine two characters are trapped in a lift. Write a script about what happens. Try to make the characters behave and speak just as they do in the book.
  • At your next chapter cliffhanger write what you think happens next. Read on and see if you were right.
  • The next time the main character is experiencing an intense emotion, stop and write a diary entry as them. What would they say?
  • Give a way you are similar to main character and a way you are different.
  • Write a newspaper article about lunch time. Make it as serious as possible and structure it like a real newspaper article.

Maths:

  • Wrong answers only. Put a calculation in the middle of the page (eg 157 + 28) and work out the correct answer. Then try and find as many mistakes as you can that someone might make and come up with as many wrong answers as you can. Eg in above example, perhaps the forgot to "carry the 1" in the first column so for the 175 instead of 185. Maybe they subtracted instead of added so got the incorrect answer of 129 etc.
  • Try and explain this maths concept to someone who cannot speak English. Use pictures, cartoons, symbols, arrows.
  • Make up your own maths board game eg land on squares and have to solve a maths problem etc. If wrong, go back spaces.
  • Create a 3D city. Each building needs to be made with a net of a shape. You must have at least 3 cylinders, 4 cuboids and 5 triangular prisms. You can also have any other shapes you like. You must be able to get everywhere in your city using the roads. If you can't make a net of it, it can't be built in your city.

I won't carry on unless anyone cares enough to want me to.

It does require work to get the list made but if your DD isn't challenged then this can be her first challenge.

You can help. But I do think unfair at this point to expect the teacher to be able to teach, prepare work for and then mark and give feedback.

I think it's more likely that revision is just boring (it is!) and I would be wanting to check how well she's actually doing in her SATS practice first.

If she is advanced then she will spend a lot of her life (school, work etc) being dragged behind by people much slower than her.

Developing the skills to stretch herself, research, ask questions, find things out for herself and take control will be helpful. She's not too young. She might need help to get ideas going but if she's clever enough to understand everything in class easily then she's capable of pushing herself in this way too.

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 16:40

toothypeggys · 16/04/2024 16:37

One thing I would ask is are you sure she's actually getting it all?

When I was a teacher I often was told by parents that the child was not challenged by the class content and found it too easy. While that may have been true in earlier years, their years of staring out of the window and not listening meant that in some areas they had fallen behind.

Eg one child whose parents were constantly contacting me that they needed pushing but they were one of only 5 children in the class who could not do long multiplication.

While they were very good at critical thinking and naturally intelligent, they weren't actually breezing through the content like everyone assumed because they'd stopped listening and engaging.

I spent so much time and effort trying to support this child but in practice they were essentially acting as one of my lower ability children.

This narrative that they were naturally gifted and didn't need to try actually meant they had no idea how to cope when they came across something they didn't easily understand with zero effort.

Assuming they genuinely are getting it all easily then I would also say... Often there is a bit of a misunderstanding about learning and lessons. E.g. when a child is off sick often we are asked to provide them the work we will do and the parent seems to think that sitting and doing the work will just teach them how to do it. But without the input in class and actual teaching, they can't do the work because they've not been taught how to do it.

So unless someone is teaching them, giving them more work to do isn't particularly helpful other than to practice and consolidate skills they already know.

If the class are revising long division and your child can do it backwards with their eyes closed standing on their head then giving them more work (ie more long divisions) isn't really very useful. If they can do 20 of them they can do 50.

If they understand it but make mistakes then yes they need more practice but they can also just create their own questions to practice with at that point. They can push themselves to try larger number or decimal numbers but in the end, if they can do it and have practiced then they can do it.

To actually stretch them and give them work that challenges them they need something they don't already know which is going to involve either direct teacher input or independent research. The former is not an option at this point but the latter is in some cases.

Your DD is the one who wants more work so to some extent she is going to need to take control of her learning herself. Assuming your DD is high flying, it's just not possible at SATS time that she can be given that independent input by the teacher.

I would suggest coming up with a list of things your DD can do quietly when she's finished and run this by the teacher to check it's ok. The teacher wont need to prepare and mark extra work but you're giving DD direction, encouragement and showing her the importance of learning for fun and improving for her self.

Examples:

Reading/Writing:

  • Come up with a statement about a character or event in the book you are reading that you absolutely do not agree with but someone else might think is true eg "Tyler is lonely in class" and find three pieces of evidence that it is wrong. Then as much evidence as you can that it's right. Form a debate with both sides arguing their case.
  • Imagine two characters are trapped in a lift. Write a script about what happens. Try to make the characters behave and speak just as they do in the book.
  • At your next chapter cliffhanger write what you think happens next. Read on and see if you were right.
  • The next time the main character is experiencing an intense emotion, stop and write a diary entry as them. What would they say?
  • Give a way you are similar to main character and a way you are different.
  • Write a newspaper article about lunch time. Make it as serious as possible and structure it like a real newspaper article.

Maths:

  • Wrong answers only. Put a calculation in the middle of the page (eg 157 + 28) and work out the correct answer. Then try and find as many mistakes as you can that someone might make and come up with as many wrong answers as you can. Eg in above example, perhaps the forgot to "carry the 1" in the first column so for the 175 instead of 185. Maybe they subtracted instead of added so got the incorrect answer of 129 etc.
  • Try and explain this maths concept to someone who cannot speak English. Use pictures, cartoons, symbols, arrows.
  • Make up your own maths board game eg land on squares and have to solve a maths problem etc. If wrong, go back spaces.
  • Create a 3D city. Each building needs to be made with a net of a shape. You must have at least 3 cylinders, 4 cuboids and 5 triangular prisms. You can also have any other shapes you like. You must be able to get everywhere in your city using the roads. If you can't make a net of it, it can't be built in your city.

I won't carry on unless anyone cares enough to want me to.

It does require work to get the list made but if your DD isn't challenged then this can be her first challenge.

You can help. But I do think unfair at this point to expect the teacher to be able to teach, prepare work for and then mark and give feedback.

I think it's more likely that revision is just boring (it is!) and I would be wanting to check how well she's actually doing in her SATS practice first.

If she is advanced then she will spend a lot of her life (school, work etc) being dragged behind by people much slower than her.

Developing the skills to stretch herself, research, ask questions, find things out for herself and take control will be helpful. She's not too young. She might need help to get ideas going but if she's clever enough to understand everything in class easily then she's capable of pushing herself in this way too.

Thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful answer.

OP posts:
Itsokish · 16/04/2024 16:51

Buy her some workbooks . The 11+ practice papers are very academically stretching .

2mummies1baby · 16/04/2024 17:23

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 15:42

Lovely ideas- although unfortunately DH and I both work full time so spare time with DC is limited. DD has a lot of hobbies that she does in her spare time- mostly sports. She’s also pretty much in the middle of puberty - with an attitude to match 😬

This is a pretty weak excuse. You have two children who will be your responsibility until they are adults; the teacher is teaching 30+ children who will be her responsibility for another few months.

Do you really think she should be the one to create special extra work for your daughter, rather than you and your husband?

Also, if she is scoring 114/115 that is very good, but there is still room for improvement- I have taught several children who were regularly getting 119 and 120 in practice SATs papers. Challenge her to aim for that!

RhiWrites · 16/04/2024 17:28

I remember being about this age and bored senseless by school. It took ten minutes to learn the lesson, the rest of the time was spent watching other kids messing about or “helping” the slower kids which always turned into just doing it for them because they were hopelessly lost and I wasn’t a teacher so didn’t know how to “help” them.

Eventually my parents pulled me out but not until I’d started bunking off school.

I think you should tell the school she’s not being challenged. They should know even if there’s nothing they can do.

Whatifthehokeycokey · 16/04/2024 18:00

By the sound of it, she's already reached and is probably working beyond the top of Level 5. Pupils like her used to be able to have a go at Level 6 papers, but they stopped them. You can mention it, and I think that would be fair to your daughter, but I realistically I can't imagine that your daughter is going to be her focus right now. She's going to be focusing on the borderlines.

Sharptonguedwoman · 16/04/2024 18:06

Papyrophile · 16/04/2024 15:45

Set her loose on your local charity bookshelves with £15 and let her select anything she fancies reading.

Excellent idea. Doesn't solve the school boredom problem though. I was going to suggest interesting books. Do speak (gently) to the teacher, ask if there is some extension work your child can do or a project or wider reading or something. using her to help the other children is OK up to a point and reinforces learning but please do ask.

MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 18:20

2mummies1baby · 16/04/2024 17:23

This is a pretty weak excuse. You have two children who will be your responsibility until they are adults; the teacher is teaching 30+ children who will be her responsibility for another few months.

Do you really think she should be the one to create special extra work for your daughter, rather than you and your husband?

Also, if she is scoring 114/115 that is very good, but there is still room for improvement- I have taught several children who were regularly getting 119 and 120 in practice SATs papers. Challenge her to aim for that!

She’s not bored at home though? She has a great social life, does a lot of sport, reads, writes, helps out around the house…. What else are we getting wrong?

OP posts:
MissDollyMix · 16/04/2024 18:25

Thank you so much for all the helpful comments- some really interesting talking and thinking points!
We've just got back from the parents evening. Her teacher is so lovely and sensible. My dilemma was solved - the first thing her teacher said (without me needing to saying anything) was that she knows that DD is covering the work faster than her peers. We chatted about some ways to help with that. All feels very positive. Looking forward to SATs being done! Good luck to all the other children sitting them and their patient teachers getting them through.

OP posts:
Tiredalwaystired · 16/04/2024 18:41

Past primary with my kids now. This is really common. The term before SATS is soooooo dull. Her life is going to be so much more exciting from the end of May onwards. Don’t sweat the next few weeks.

SocksAmnesia · 16/04/2024 20:21

I have a bright spark OP and noticed she was less enthusiastic about school, citing boredom. I got a membership to Twinkl and she really enjoys it- also allows her to pick what she wants to study. She is also regularly allowed to read in school after she has completed her work to a satisfactory level.

Papyrophile · 16/04/2024 21:09

The reading doesn't need to be anything other than engaging. It doesn't even need to be age appropriate. At your DD's age, an elderly librarian lent me all the James Bond books. Great fun, and obviously not to be taken seriously, but a light hearted intoduction to adult fiction. Simple plots. If you want something milder, the Alex Rider series is a bit less politically incorrect. Not much though.

nibblemunch · 16/04/2024 21:09

When i was at school my parents asked my head teacher for more home work for me i hated it.
From primary to high school i had this constant work to do.
I felt like i was in school all the time.
When all i wanted to do was read my own books and play and be a normal kid have friends etc after school.
But no i had a pile of homework even the weekends were a school day if i had done it all i had more due to my parents buying maths english and other books i had to learn from.
It was awful.
I grow up to hate schools i didnt like school in the first place but it took the piss.
I snapped at 14 and stayed with my nan she stuck by me and saw how unhappy i was im sure i was having a mental breakdown.
I never went back to school after that day my nan got all my things and i stayed with her until i left home.

ThinWomansBrain · 16/04/2024 21:13

If you want additional tuition for your child, arrange and pay for it.
Why expect a poorly paid state school teacher to provide it for free?

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