To think something is not quite right about my elderly aunt's way of looking after her brother

[Yashy]

I have an aunt (68 years old) who was living with and looking after her brother ie. my uncle (76 years old). He sadly passed away at home a few days ago.

They are from Mauritius and don't speak English very well.

This aunt has previously expressed her suspicions and conspiracy theories about the NHS eg. Things like they just want to kill old people and if you get kept in, they'll try and kill you.

My uncle doesn't like going to hospital as there is a language barrier and he often gets depressed spending weeks in a ward. My aunt's preference is for him never to go to hospital.

He once had a stroke in the evening and she didn't call the doctors until the next morning. I'm not medical but I always thought something like that needed urgent medical attention.

A couple of weeks ago doctors said his organs were slowly deteriorating. They estimated he had 4 months left to live and said he should receive palliative care at home.

I went to visit her after my uncle died. She was telling me about the events leading up to his death saying that he got very unwell and she sat by his bed holding his hand. Her sister (another aunty of mine) was saying they should phone the paramedics but she said "what are they even going to do?" and "they will just take him to hospital and he doesn't like it" and "it's better he stays home, he is happier here". And then he got worse and worse and basically died. My cousins (her children) were also listening to her tell this account and replied with "You did brilliantly mum, he was lucky to have you with him"..

AIBU to think the whole thing is nuts, she should have called for medical help and maybe he might have lived!?

I agree with this poster and others saying similar. It's hard to let someone go and not want everything done so as to prolong life, but it's often not the best thing for the person who is dying. I am so sorry for your loss, but your Aunt did your Uncle a final kindness in respecting his wishes.

I think people have unrealistic ideas of what palliative care in hospitals actually looks like. It's not dignified or peaceful in any way.

As long as he wasn't it pain then yabu. He would have been dragged to hospital and not had the death he wanted. Relatives often want excess medical intervention that isn't in the best interest if the person who is dying.

We all have different ways of approaching these kinds of situations, OP. I’d let it go. A family member on my DH side decided to take charge of another person’s care as they approached the end of their life. In my opinion, their priorities and choices were utterly bizarre and resulted in the person dying alone in hospital instead of at home with the people who loved them. But that’s just my opinion. Nothing illegal happened and I wasn’t there (Covid). Someone has to make the decisions and not everyone will believe them to be the correct ones.

A couple of weeks ago doctors said his organs were slowly deteriorating. They estimated he had 4 months left to live and said he should receive palliative care at home.

Her sister (another aunty of mine) was saying they should phone the paramedics but she said "what are they even going to do?" and "they will just take him to hospital and he doesn't like it" and "it's better he stays home, he is happier here". And then he got worse and worse and basically died.

AIBU to think the whole thing is nuts, she should have called for medical help and maybe he might have lived!?

He was dying and doctors were aware he was likely to do so at home. This is quite a normal situation.

Assuming he could express his wishes, paramedics wouldn’t necessarily have taken him to hospital especially if he didn’t want that. A lot of people prefer to die at home.

He was already receiving palliative care and was dying. It’s medical care that is available, not miracle cures. YABU.

She followed his wishes. He didn’t want to go in to hospital. What would have been the point of calling an ambulance and “keeping” him alive?! He had a palliative diagnosis anyway.

I don’t see the point of you going on like this OP. What are you hoping to achieve?!

He was receiving palliative care and given months to live. Why would you put him through all that to drag a few extra months of illness out of him? She was right to let him die in his own home imo.

While I agree that she should have called an ambulance as soon as she thought he was having a stroke, it probably wouldn't have made much difference given how long it would have taken an ambulance to reach him. My mother was recently deemed to be at high risk of stroke and her husband was told to get her into his car and to hospital rather than call ambulance ambulance because it wouldn't get there quickly enough. I guess your aunt wouldn't have been in a position to do this?

Also please don't underestimate the pressure that would have been on your aunt in trying to provide care 24/7, especially when it got to the palliative stage. It's incredibly stressful and difficult. It sounds like your aunt was doing her best and following medical support and guidance.

Please don't make her feel guilty for doing everything she reasonably could according to your late uncle's wishes.

Let it go, she did what most of us would prefer truth be told. I wouldn't want a few more days or weeks hooked up to machines, frightened, he was obviously terminal.

The strike situation is different, but not all strokes are easy to spot

68! Elderly?! It def is not

I’m sorry for your loss OP you are grieving, but gently his organs were dying and he was in palliative care at home. It’s ok he died there, better comfortable at home with loved ones than a shared ward.

Your aunt did what she thought he wanted. Be kind to her and yourself.

I recently watched my grandfather die in hospital. His care was utterly shocking. I knew the NHS was struggling, but I didn’t know how bad it was, or how little some of the doctors and nurses cared. I had to beg them to give him medicine for pain (he had cancer), they’d say he hadn’t asked for it (he had dementia) and I also had to ask them why he was wet on a daily basis. This was just a tiny bit of the awful care he received.
They refused to give him palliative or end of life care, until 24 hours before he passed. It was cruel. Disgusting. Undignified. And has left me traumatised.

I wish we could have taken him home and let him die there. He’d fallen and broken his hip though, so they wouldn’t let us.

I would be grateful that your uncle died where he was comfortable, with his sister.

I think she did the right thing.

He was on palliative care at home. Taking him to a hospital to die slowly there would have been cruel. She did the right thing, and he got to die at home, peacefully, as he wanted.

Lived for what? Another 4 miserable months with failing organs?

I think your aunt did the right thing. She respected his wishes. She knew he wouldn't want to go to hospital and it would only make him anxious. She allowed him to pass in the comfort of his home.

It sounds like.he was on end of life palliative care. He had chosen to die at home. He may possibly have signed a DNR as part of the palliative care process.

So if he was in the palliative care system there would be a team that could be called to administer end of life medications for things like pain relief and to support of he needed help with the toilet, being turned in bed etc

It sounds like that team could have been called if he wasn't comfortable but not to "help him live".

Some people go downhill very quickly. My Mum.was one. Two days and she was gone. We only had chance to call the palliative nurse in twice anyway due to the speed.

I'm sorry for your loss but he died at home which was his wish.

Exactly. Why on earth do people want other people to keep on living and living? It is so selfish.

I hope that I have a relative like your aunt when I am close to dying. I don't want to end up in hospital being kept alive for nothing and taking up a valuable bed that could be given to a younger person.

What are you hoping to achieve by this?

Unless you were actively involved in your uncles care yourself, I don't think you get much say.
It sounds like he died as many millions of people before him have died - quietly at home, after a long period of illness, and then a sudden decline. Heck, that's how the literal QUEEN went.

Your aunt isn't wrong in her opinion about the NHS. And it sounds like your uncle would have been much happier at home, in his own surroundings, speaking his own language, with his sister by his side. Not on his own, in unknown surroundings, struggling to understand what is being said and done to him, by strangers.

Yes, he might have been "saved" in the hospital - but if he was already terminal, what's the point? I think your aunt did exactly the right thing, and I can only hope I'd have the courage to do the same if I were her. I certainly don't think it's nuts. I think she did him a great kindness.

I agree with how your aunt handled it. What she gave him was basically palliative care.

Why drag him to hospital and have him pushed and pulled and prodded, when he hated it?

I saw a friend’s day that lived in Spain had throat cancer and was sent home to die they said he had two weeks. His wife nursed him - no carers. He couldn’t swallow - they liquidiser food for him and a straw and he just withered away and died - took 6 horrendous months.

My very elderly but fit uncle went in for an operation and they botched it - coming out of his throat and he had major surgery to repair his throat. He was 68 but when I visited they just put a tray down with food and he couldn’t lift it or swallow so they took it away again - literally he was so dry and couldn’t speak. My aunt was unable to visit every day and had her own health issues and the last time I saw him - I could see in his eyes how much pain he was in and his lips were all cracked and his mouth dry and skin dehydrated. He could swallow but I got some cotton wool and made it wet and put it in his mouth and he was literally dying of thirst. He literally died of dehydrated and lack of care and should never of died in Swansea hospital over a routine minor surgery the botch was bad enough but the nursing care or lack of it - haunted me. I was very young, and I was what 30 odd years ago but horrific.

He once had a stroke in the evening and she didn't call the doctors until the next morning. I'm not medical but I always thought something like that needed urgent medical attention.

My uncle had a stroke but his family had no idea until it didn't improve the next day and called the Out Of Hours doctor, my aunt thought it was a bad migraine.

You seem to have all sorts of opinions about your uncle's health care, did you help out in any way?

I agree.

You should thank your Aunt, your uncle died at home where he was comfortable. If he had gone to the hospital, he would have spent his last days on a trolley in a corridor.

Did he have pain relief at home? I think it would be right to ask for medical support at home, if he wished for that. But since he was dying anyway, it's not helpful to send him into hospital if it would only cause him stress and unhappiness.