To say absolutely no way

[mamamamaa]

I have a friend I've known since university, I'll call her Emma, me and Emma have a really good relationship and her oldest DS is a year older than my oldest DS (eight and seven), she also has a younger son who's three and I have a daughter who is one. Around 6 months ago I agreed that both of her children can come for asleep over at my house as DS gets on really well with them. I was apprehensive as DD was only small but I thought it would be nice for my son to have something after my daughter having the attention for the past six or so months. Chaos ensued after the children were put to bed they were screaming banging and jumping on the beds and not quitening down when me and DH asked them to we that wake the baby and that we have neighbours who don't want to hear their screeching. After around 3 times DH went in and said that this was their final chance and if they didn't quite down X and y couldn't come for a sleepover ever again. This did the trick for DS and he calmed down and went to sleep about half an hour after DH went in. However Emma's children persisted screaming, shouting, banging to the point where they woke DD ( her rooms next door) I removed them into the spare room so DS and DS wasn't disturbed and no more of his toys got broken (which had happened earlier in the evening). When I put them in the spare room I told him that this was their last chance it was now 11 o'clock and if they didn't go to sleep I would call their mom to which the children said no! Mummy will shout', it quietened down a little, however there was still shouting, when I went In for the final time i discovered Enmas children had pulled one of my pot plants out and there was soil all over the floor and had pulled a picture down so I ended up taking the children home at half 11 at night. I was very explicit in saying Emma's children would not be welcome to sleep over again.
Fast forward to this morning me Emma and the children all met up at the park, in spite of this DS and Emma's children still have a really good friendship and they were playing together and DS came over to me and Emma and asked if X and y could sleep over again I said absolutely not due to the shenanigans that happened last time, I explained to DS that I know I knew that it wasn't his fault because he went to sleep and was a good boy but they're not staying over again because their behavior was unacceptable. Went home and I got a text from Emma saying the the way I spoke about her children was unacceptable and that she was very upset with me. I've spoken to DH he doesn't think that I've done anything wrong all I've done is stated fact. But I'm in the dog house with Emma for not acknowledging her children as perfect angels. Was I unreasonable to say no and explain why to DS?

Aah, the old sleepover perils. I wouldn’t have had the three year old. The other two boys may have played nicely without him there. I’ve had many a room wrecked by little kids. A lot of the time mothers don’t like to think their child can be so destructive but they are. Maybe you shouldn’t have compared the behaviour in front of the mum tho

Apologies, I misread!

In that case, you were being rude, OP-there was no need to say that.

@mamamamaa what did you say to Emma the morning after the sleepover?

I don't allow sleepovers but if I did and if I was Emma, I wouldn't speak to you again after saying that. The fact that it's accurate is neither here nor there. What you said was hurtful

I don’t think it was kind to talk about her DC like that in front of her; your DC was part of the situation escalating to the point it did and he was able to settle because he was in his house with his parents; a big difference to her children.
I’m surprised you didn’t just sit with her kids until they fell asleep last time as they were clearly very heightened

I said absolutely not due to the shenanigans that happened last time, I explained to DS that I know I knew that it wasn't his fault because he went to sleep and was a good boy but they're not staying over again because their behavior was unacceptable.

That’s just rude, to be honest. You could have just said, no-I’m not ready for another sleepover!

Then later, at home, explain to your son why you said that and ask him to ask for sleepovers in front of them again!

Wow.
You are a pretty awful friend to do that tbh.

If I'm reading this right your son was also banging and screeching and it took three goes to get him to be quiet, so he was hardly a perfect angel himself.

I'm afraid you were very tactless and rude. By all means have a quiet chat with Emma about the fact that her children were very disruptive, and perhaps no more sleepovers until they're a bit older. It wouldn't even be terrible to speak to your child (separately, alone) about why that sort of behaviour isn't ok (because come on, your kid was joining in with the tomfoolery up to a point). But you shouldn't have spoken like that about her children to your child while she was sat right there. It's really inappropriate and comes across smug and holier-than-thou.

You owe Emma an apology. There was a way to handle this situation with tact and you did not do that.

It obviously would have been completely fine if you had said 'you know that isn't going to be allowed after last time DS.' Nothing more needed saying.

The other possibility that has just crossed my mind is that this might actually be a reverse, and the OP may actually be "Emma". Just a thought.

This must be a reverse. You can't be that stupid. They're children staying at a house for the first time. Fair enough if you're not willing to do it again but the way you spoke about them was awful. Why didn't you stay with them, put the tv on, read to them?

Other than saying your son was a good boy (he clearly wasn't to begin with) then you were just being factual so she can't really complain unless she thinks that emptying plant pots all over the floor and taking pictures off the wall is acceptable?!?!

I would have done the same as you. In fact I would have said it ages ago. Emptying a flower pot! Knocking a picture off the wall! I wouldn’t have them back in the house.

God you were rude, verging on nasty

3 is too young for a sleepover. Why on earth didn't you just invite DS friend if you wanted him to have a bit of a treat. You must have known the 3 year old would be a handful staying away from home overnight, he sounds like he was just completely overstimulated.

Even at 8 when dd had sleepovers I'd brace myself for little sleep as they would get excited and take a good while to settle down.

There was absolutely no need to speak to your ds like that about her children. Just a 'not tonight' would have sufficed, especially when you have already told her they misbehaved.

You did nothing wrong. People shouldn't have to constantly overthink everything they say in case it might offend someone.

I think you could have been a bit more diplomatic than that and say, "the sleepover didn't go very well last time," or something like that.

YANBU to say no to another sleepover. It sounded like it was hell, but they were probably too young.

YABU for how you handled the discussion. You neglected to acknowledge that your DS had misbehaved until he was warned about no more sleepovers, and then he went to sleep. So, no, he wasn't a good boy, was he?

You should have just said that you don't want to host any more sleepovers at that time and in a discussion with Emma, you could have suggested maybe they were all still too young for them and when they were a little older-you'd try again.

That would have got the result of no more sleepover and not resulted in upsetting Emma. As it is, you've painted her children as feral demons and yours as perfect angels and I think you know how that would have made her feel.

Unfortunately op, I think this is really all on you. A sleepover is a LOT for some children to handle especially at 3 years old. And it's sounding from your post like you were expecting the 3, 7 and 8 yo to sleep in together and all go to bed? It sounds like you had totally unrealistic expectations of what the night would be like and it sounds like you have essentially rubbed salt in the wound by telling your son how he was a "good boy" in front of Emma's children essentially criticising and singling them out in front of them and her. It was tactless and probably upsetting for her children. There were other ways you could have dealt with that. A child who's over excited and probably overstimulated at a sleepover and who misbehaves, isn't a bad child. And you inferred that they were bad children through what you said to your son. Your lack of realistic expectation for young children and your inability to manage all the kids effectively doesn't create good or bad children. If I was Emma I'd be pissed off at the way you spoke about them too.

It was the “and you were a good boy” after you’d stated your DS hadn’t listened to you repeatedly and didn’t settle down until late in the night either. Your DS was not good, neither were the other child but you did come across as extremely judgemental while turning a blind eye to your own child’s misbehaviour.

What was wrong with just saying no, why the need to play 'my child was a saint' card

Of course YABU. How did you think she'd feel?

There was no need to word it like that. And your DS was also being a PITA from the sounds of it, he just fell asleep sooner. You were twisting the knife and putting it all on her kids.

Definitely don't have them sleep over as it sounds bad like a nightmare but I think you need to apologise to your friend as you have upset them.

I would maybe send a text saying sorry for how you came across and that it was just a stressful situation that you’d rather not put yourself through again and maybe you could try again once all children are a little older.

I think I would have just said something like ‘ooh no it didn’t end well last time did it? Maybe when you’re all a bit bigger’
No need to slag off her kids in front of her

YANBU to tell her. But YABU to expect her not to mind! Only tell someone this kind of thing if you don't care about the friendship being affected.

You could have just kept schtum. Slightly optimistic to have them both over, try just the oldest if there’s another time, although Emma sounds horrified, so 8 doubt you’ll remain friends.

You should have said, “Maybe when you’re all a little older” and left it at that. It was unnecessary to slag off Emma’s DC in front of her.