To take a job with the DWP even though I will lose friends

[Sunsnet]

I currently work a minimum wage job in retail. It's long hours, exhausting and for really shitty money. Sometimes I earn less than minimum wage as I'm salaried and not entitled to overtime.

I've just been offered a job with the DWP. I'll earn 50% more, have a WAY better pension plus more benefits. I'll even be able to work fewer hours so I can spend more time with my family and STILL be better off than now. BUT, I have friends who think the DWP is immoral and by working for them I will be implicit in that immorality.

I agree that the way the DWP works at the moment is immoral, but surely we need good people to work there to ensure that people who need the help and are entitled to it actually get it. Or am I just clutching at straws to justify my position?

I have one friend in particular who says they will never speak to me again if I take the job. This friend is independently wealthy and never needs to work again, I am not. I do not own property, have a family to support, I'm a single parent and I have no qualifications so have no hope of a better job.

Would I really be that awful a person to sell out and take this job?

I worked for DWP for 20 years. There's some really great people work there, most want to advise and help clients to get everything they're entitled to. Of course there's a few wankers there but you get that in all jobs plus you can usually identify them pdq!

Its a job you tend to be in for years, very family friendly, in my time there I went from full time to 3 days a week, then school hours, then school hours term time only then back to 4 days a week to fit in with my changing family needs and then took a generous redundancy package. Great social life if you're interested. I found plenty of opportunities to develop my career with them. It's an interesting, varied job. You'll tend to say you're a civil servant (if asked) because as you've found mentioning DWP can be a divisive thing, but I never had any issues about it.

Don't take your job home with you. You aren't responsible for the rules. At the end of the day it's a job, fairly well paid, flexible hours, but ultimately a job to help you support your family.

Spoken like someone for who this will never be a real choice.
But I guess you could always eat that high horse.

I am sorry, but you would need a heart of stone to do what those people do to a lot of vulnerable people. I certainly couldn't maintain a friendship with anyone who chose to work for them.

Whats the alternative? No staff, longer waiting times?

They offer support, training, sort out pensions, energy boost, pension credit - they will have accounts departments, billing, etc they aren’t all face to face investigators etc

If nobody worked there everyone would be worse off.

This makes me quite angry.

I've been a civil servant for years ending up working at director level when I left to retrain in something I never expected to get into. Recently I am being treated for cancer and have had to defer from my course for a year.

I can't currently work so am dealing with DWP. It is wildly frustrating. However this is austerity, a complacent Tory govt and crap policy not immoral workers.

How dare your money bags pal try and stop you from accessing a good solid opportunity to progress and build a career?

This is not a friend or even an intelligent argument.

Take the job. Do your best. Treat people with compassion and clarity. Grab opportunities to progress within the civil service if you wish. This is the beauty of taking a job in such an organisation, the chances it opens up. Want to work abroad, study, be promoted, there will be opportunities, you have to look out for them.

Not saying it will be always easy or every CS job will be the right fit but once you're in you can really do some interesting stuff. Please ignore this person. What a tosser. The DWP is far, far from perfect but working there morally you can actually do some good even if it's just doing the job with efficiency and kindness.

Your luxury beliefs won't pay OPs bills.

Take the job OP congratulations!

@Sunsnet

I have one friend in particular who says they will never speak to me again if I take the job. This friend is independently wealthy and never needs to work again, I am not. I do not own property, have a family to support, I'm a single parent and I have no qualifications so have no hope of a better job.

This "friend" doesn't, I assume pay any of your bills, bought you a home, given you ££££ to make your life easier? Take the job OP and make a better life for yourself and your family. Losing this person, who seems to have no idea of how difficult your life is a bonus. Good luck. 🌹

What is ‘immoral’ about the DWP? Just another government department like the NHS etc.
Rake the job and ditch your deluded ‘friends’

@Jasmin1971 I had a nervous breakdown and lost my job a few years ago due to domestic violence. The DWP woman I seen was incredibly helpful and kind to me and did not sanction me nor did she rush me back to work.

Is your friend really dull? The DWP is run by civil servants who simply carry out the policy intent of the serving government. They don’t make the rules. Will the friend be ok with you taking the job if/when Labour come into power? What a strange person.

DWP is huge, with many roles as said by PP, RE PIP - there is also massive backlog for people with their claims.

Yes there have been awful experiences, but we do need people to come on board and process these please, and we want great, compassionate people in these roles, surely?!

Wanted to add my congratulations as well OP!

Luxury beliefs? Ha.

No, just someone who knows how the PIP department works and who had has many dealings with their staff. I genuinely could not be friends with someone who carried out that role. They actively try to make the lives of disabled people harder. If someone is OK with that, I'd deeply question their morals.

OP hasn't said which department, though.

You sound very bitter and judgemental @WalkingonWheels.
I have a friend who always votes Tory. I don't agree with her political views, but I wouldn't end a friendship over it because I'm not an arsehole.

I also have a friend who does the job that you describe and she is not an unfeeling arsehole. She doesn't agree with the policies, but it pays the bills.

The thing is, a lot of people can’t abandon their values to do a job enacting policy that goes against all they stand for.

I know this is an extreme analogy, but if your job entailed cruelty in a physical form that your boss told you to carry out, would you because it paid the bills? Where do you draw the line?

People are able to draw the line by telling themselves they don’t make the rules and distancing themselves from it, but some would argue that by doing that job, they’re okay with it morally. I definitely wouldn’t be able to do a job if I absolutely disagreed with the whole ethos, and I suspect most would leave.

I do understand your argument, but I also understand others.

Sometimes in a policy delivery job it's looking at the bigger picture to coin a well worn civil service phrase. So, no, you may not like sanctions, waiting times, harsh PIP guidelines etc but you do believe in there being a welfare state and there needing to be someone to administrate it even in its very imperfect form. Does your argument apply to the NHS with its postcode inequalities etc?

I know this is an extreme analogy, but if your job entailed cruelty in a physical form that your boss told you to carry out, would you because it paid the bills?

You're right @YoureALizardHarry11. We all have a line that we draw somewhere. I wouldn't work in a role that advocated animal cruelty, people trafficking or drug dealing, but I don't think working for the DWP is in the same category.

Are you vegetarian? I assume so.

If not the abattoir/butcher one is much the same as the DWP one - assuming the people that would fall out with someone working at DWP would claim benefits if they needed to.

What about livestock farmers - I think you need to add them to your list of cancelled people?
People that work in factories that produce food that include meat?
Shops that retail food that include meat? Supermarkets/garages/newsagents...
People that coook and sell meat in canteens and restaurants.
People that eat meat?

You might have to start slashing away at some of your friendships?

I think her placing you in to an ultimatum is a very self shitty move full of self importance. She sounds exhausting.

Whether she likes the DWP or not, you have bills to pay and want better working hours. You might not find another job that suits your work life balance for while, but as long as her feelings are protected then that’s all ok 🙄. Someone has to do these jobs and that’s the reality of it.

OP they are not your friends if they make you feel this way. Do what is right for you and your family. Congrats on the opportunity for your new job and best wishes. 👌

I take issue when they literally twist everything people say to avoid giving an award even though it’s clear from the evidence provided that they aren’t a liar. I understand going by the outsourced assessment reports, but the atol assessors are ill qualified, and they still refuse at mandatory reconsideration around 80% of the time.

The fact that 70% of independent appeals over turn the original decision speaks volumes. They are counting on people not taking their claims to appeal because they are too anxious, or lack the knowledge or capacity to go to appeal to challenge them, and even if only a small percentage don’t go that far, it’s a few hundred pounds a week saved for them!

I absolutely am bitter and judgemental and for very good reason. I wouldn't be friends with a Tory either.

I absolutely am bitter and judgemental and for very good reason

Then sack them all and you’d get nothing?

Good idea really we could ban all benefit, put people out on the street and save millions.

Alternatively, they could treat disabled people like human beings and not subject them to humiliating, traumatic experiences while giving them the support they need. How about that?

But surely if the OP is a good, honest person that's exactly what she'll do? And in doing so, be the kind of person these roles need more of

Do you think every single dwp does that or something?

Maybe not all of them, but as a fellow disabled person I know exactly where @WalkingonWheels is coming from, and given that we are two random strangers on the internet, and it’s well documented how gruelling and harsh the PIP process is, I’d say it’s a pretty common occurrence.

They are trained in how to deal with PIP claims, and either they follow policy, which means every single one has to be the same, or they don’t, which goes against near enough every poster on this thread claiming they are just doing as they’re told.