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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - should he have to pay?

30 replies

whitenoise24 · 05/04/2024 09:22

Hi all,

Please help me re this tricky situation.

I live in a flat of 8 tenants. 4 floors, 2 flats per floor. It's a freehold so we are all directors of the maintenance company. We each pay a service charge which goes into the maintenance fund, which is then used to pay for issues that crop up concerning the exterior of the building. All tenants are very friendly, never had any issues or disputes.

There are serious issues with the roof which means water has been leaking through my kitchen ceiling (I'm on the top floor). In January we sorted for scaffolding to be put up so the roofer could investigate, and all tenants we're made aware that cars would need to be removed from the garages (as the scaffolding blocks access) and parked on the road until the issue is resolved (no time frame was given). All tenants moved cars and updated insurance details except one, who rarely drives his and chose to leave in the garage.

We have spent a considerable sum of money on the scaffolding and investigating the roof issues and thought the issue was resolved. However I urged that we keep the scaffolding in place as long as possible so that we can see if the roof issues reoccur (they have reoccured before) or if there are any issues when it rains again, and to avoid paying for scaffolding to be put up again if they do reoccur.

We have had to arrange for the scaffolding to be taken down today becuase the tenant that left his car in the garage requires it for MOT on Monday (and wants to get the car out on Sunday so he can do a run around). However, last night the roof started leaking again (the timing!) so we called off the scaffolder as he was due at 7am this morning and have sorted the roofer to come back on Monday. This was in the hope that the tenant could rearrange his MOT/leave it for a bit longer. I felt this was the right thing to do given the extortionate cost of the scaffolding / the urgency of the issue with water coming through the ceiling.

The tenant is now insisting the scaffolding is taken down, he removes his car, and the maintenance company (ie the 8 tenants) pay to get it put back up. I feel this is totally unjustified that we should all pay simply becuase he chose to leave his car in the garage and he now requires it. It's also not as simple as getting it taken down, and put back up the next day, the whole process will need to start again, thus slowing down actually fixing the issue and my kitchen ceiling dissolving even more.

I have gone back to him several times with solutions but he insistent the car needs to be moved, and that the company is liable to pay to get the scaffolding put back up.

Not part of the AIBU but I'm now worried about so many what ifs:

  • what if the scaffolder can't come back today and the car is now stuck until he can all because I postponed him as I thought it was the right thing to do (currently can't get hold of him).
  • what if the scaffolding is removed and the tenant refuses to cover the cost himself and it falls on all of us
  • what if he hates me and its awkward living here (he also lives on top floor opposite me)

AIBU - to think that this shouldn't be a shared cost just because he chose to leave his car in the garage and that if he needs the car he needs to pay for the process himself.

Thanks so much!

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 05/04/2024 09:27

Tenant is a dick. He’s going to have to park his car on the street.

Commonhousewitch · 05/04/2024 09:28

He chose to ignore the instructions to move his car out of the garage so it is his cost..
Surely he can just delay by a few days?

KrisAkabusi · 05/04/2024 09:30

Are you seriously saying that you have left scaffolding blocking your garage since January, just in case there was another leak? I know you said there was no timeframe in the letter, but that's a ridiculous amount of time to leave it. When was the work actually finished? When he left the car in the garage I doubt he thought it would still be unusable three months later

PickledPurplePickle · 05/04/2024 09:31

KrisAkabusi · 05/04/2024 09:30

Are you seriously saying that you have left scaffolding blocking your garage since January, just in case there was another leak? I know you said there was no timeframe in the letter, but that's a ridiculous amount of time to leave it. When was the work actually finished? When he left the car in the garage I doubt he thought it would still be unusable three months later

This - the timescale is ridiculous - you can't expect people to just wait months like this

CraftyBum · 05/04/2024 09:39

He didn't ignore instruction given that no normal person would have thought about anything 2-3 months in advance. You'd have thought a week or 2 maybe. However, if all he wants it for is an MOT he's being precious over it, it can wait.

CraftyBum · 05/04/2024 09:40

How much does it cost to put back up?

knowsmorethansnow · 05/04/2024 09:44

You can't expect to put people out for months.

Mrsttcno1 · 05/04/2024 09:45

If the scaffolding has genuinely been up and blocking since January, then YABU. Nobody in their right mind would think that scaffolding going up in January would still be there in April stopping their vehicle being moved.

You’ve made the decision that benefits you for your own roof, you’ve inconvenienced people since January “just incase”.

YesThatsATurdOnTheRug · 05/04/2024 09:47

He's being absurd. I don't see the problem with being certain about the roof either, it's not a small matter. He can wait for his MOT for a few more days.

Azandme · 05/04/2024 09:49

At the outset, when you discussed the garages bring inaccessible whilst the roof was being repaired what time frame was given for this?

NotARealWookiie · 05/04/2024 09:50

I do think you’ve left the scaffolding up longer than is reasonable and can understand that he was expecting to have access sooner. However given the roof is now leaking he should rearrange his MOT. I doubt his car will start now anyway.

I appreciate the leak specifically affects you but it is everyone roof so he needs to see this as his roof needing fixing.

DrJoanAllenby · 05/04/2024 09:56

I went to book an MOT a month in advance for one of our vehicles and there were only two times available, one I couldn't make and the other is two days before the MOT runs out.

Perhaps your neighbour is under time constraints with the MOT company that he uses, so he can't get another date before the MOT expires.

I think you are being completely unreasonable about leaving the scaffolding up so long and then insisting he pay because he wants to use his car.

I wouldn't want to park my car on a street for months on end when I have bought or rented a property that comes with a garage or off street parking. It's fine to be inconvenienced for a short time whilst essential work is carried out but for you to dictate that no one can use the garages because you want the scaffolding to stay up for months on end is incredibly selfish and demanding.

Don't you have insurance?

Noyesnoyes · 05/04/2024 09:56

CraftyBum · 05/04/2024 09:39

He didn't ignore instruction given that no normal person would have thought about anything 2-3 months in advance. You'd have thought a week or 2 maybe. However, if all he wants it for is an MOT he's being precious over it, it can wait.

This!

Original poster
whitenoise24 · 05/04/2024 10:08

Hi all - to clear up a few things:

  • all tenants agreed that they wanted to keep the scaffolding up until the next time it heavily rained so as to test the work (all decisions are made via a vote) - the next time if heavily rained happened to be yesterday
  • the tenant who didn't move his car is also on the top floor with massive damage to his ceiling and he is also desperate to have the work sorted - he has been in full agreement with all decisions made
  • if you're aware of how a freehold works, you'd know it is not 'my roof' - its everyones roof.
  • 'I' have not made any decisions that benefit me, the decisions made jointly and benefit the company as the company will need to pay for the roof repairs and the damage caused the top floor ceilings
  • no timeframe was given, it was originally thought a whole new roof would be required, which including the scaffold installation, investigation, tile sourcing, roof removal, time could easily have taken 6 months to source and complete pending on roofer availability (it is a huge building with a huge old roof)

The roofer has investigated several times and every time it rained the issue continued, thus keeping the scaffolding in place. The last round of work was only completed at the end of March.

I agree it's a lengthy time period, and it's unfortunate that he didn't move his car. But I don't agree the company should pay for this judgement. All other tenants were happy to move cars and to have this be in place for a potentially long period of time.

OP posts:
Dora33 · 05/04/2024 10:09

How much has the scaffolding rental cost you per week / month?
When was the roof problem found in January fixed?
And how much does it cost to rerect the scaffolding?
As I don't think you can use the argument that he should have moved his car out in January. As he surely would have expected the scaffolding to be down by now.
Also if you are having continuous roof leaking problems, maybe the whole roof needs replacing.

Kelly51 · 05/04/2024 10:12

I'd be thinking I needed a new roofer, work was 'complete' yet continues to leak, hardly a good job

Tattletwat · 05/04/2024 10:16

I think he ha been more than patient also he has paid for a flat with a garage he's got a right to use it.

Scaffolding up for months to repair the problem is fine, but to have it up for months just to investigate is ridiculous, it seems odd as well that with the forth wettest February on record the rain hasn't been heavy enough yet.

CraftyBum · 05/04/2024 10:17

So it's not even like the scaffolding is due down in the next couple of weeks really is it? I'm on the fence. If he knew it was likely months it's his own fault. He doesn't actually need the car he just wants it MOT'd so he could do that down the line.

KrisAkabusi · 05/04/2024 10:18

all tenants agreed that they wanted to keep the scaffolding up until the next time it heavily rained so as to test the work (all decisions are made via a vote) - the next time if heavily rained happened to be yesterday

But you also say
The roofer has investigated several times and every time it rained the issue continued

So how many times have you voted to keep the scaffolding up? Because if you only voted once in January and it's now April, you're being unreasonable. And you need to get a roofer that can do the job if you've now had several investigations and three months work with nothing actually fixed.

forrestgreen · 05/04/2024 10:22

Surely if the majority of the tenants agree with him then he gets his way and vice versa.

But I thought if your car was off the Road it didn't need to be motd on the date?

OldTinHat · 05/04/2024 10:22

If the car is stuck, then that's because of his own decision not to move it.

If he doesn't pay towards the service charge/repairs, then you can sue under the terms of the freehold and potentially take possession of his leasehold.

Original poster
whitenoise24 · 05/04/2024 11:08

The scaffolding does not cost per week/month, it's a fixed cost for installation & removal. Length of time kept in place doesn't change the cost. It is £3k.

I should clarify, the roofer has been back 3 times (once in Feb, twice in March), each time a new issue is discovered and fixed, yet the the leak is still there. Hence the scaffolding being kept up. We have voted multiple times since the scaffolding was installed.

The roofer coming on Monday is a different one.

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 05/04/2024 11:22

whitenoise24 · 05/04/2024 11:08

The scaffolding does not cost per week/month, it's a fixed cost for installation & removal. Length of time kept in place doesn't change the cost. It is £3k.

I should clarify, the roofer has been back 3 times (once in Feb, twice in March), each time a new issue is discovered and fixed, yet the the leak is still there. Hence the scaffolding being kept up. We have voted multiple times since the scaffolding was installed.

The roofer coming on Monday is a different one.

Edited

I'm glad you've got a new roofer because the first sounds useless if he cba to check there are no more issues after he fixes one!

Daffodilsarentfluffy · 05/04/2024 11:25

Why the rush for his car now if he has been managing without since January?

TheSnowyOwl · 05/04/2024 11:31

No matter that the other tenant agreed, I can’t imagine he expected the scaffolding to still be up four months later because that’s not just waiting for the next time it rained. Unless you aren’t in the U.K. you have had a huge amount of rain over the last four months.

To have not fixed it in all this time suggests your roofer isn't doing a good enough job. It’s not normal to leave up scaffolding for over a third of a year just on the off chance that the contractor used needs to keep coming back because their work isn’t up to standard.

I think you need to find a middle ground here. Perhaps the maintainence fund can pay for someone who comes to the property to remove the car and take it to a garage for the MOT once it has expired and you have a set date that the scaffolding comes down, no matter what.

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